Dark Eldar Tactica - 6th Edition

[Corvus Corone]

The trouble with chain snares is that they only work in the movement phase, and that's now only 12", where it used to be twice that =(.

Still fine for a few wounds mind, just not nearly as usable as before.

[cymera]

Any thoughts on how to get something useful out of grotesques (and other coven units)? Love all the models and want to find a way to use them effectively...

I was thinking maybe 3 or 4 with a haemie in a raider backed a raider full of wracks? Quite fluffy, room for 4 liquefiers between the 2 squads, and has some powerful CC punch. Maybe even give the haemie a WWP for a talos or 2 to pop out of. I know they wouldn't be able to assault right off the bat but that's still only 1 turn to get shot at before they're in CC.

Any thoughts/alternate strategies?

[UmbralPresence]

Cronos was surprisingly useful both versus Blood Angels and Tau. Vortex and Syphon, despite S3 and S4 accordingly, have AP3. So each turn Cronos generated at least one pain token. Theoretically it can generate 4 tokens in a controller's turn and 2 more in enemy's:
1. Kill a model with Vortex - can give away;
2. Kill a model with syphon- can give away;
Assault what remains of the shot unit.
3. Kill every one left with Probe - can give away;
4. It just killed a whole unit, so another one just for itself.

In enemy's turn - gets assaulted, wipes the assaulting unit (well, it's less probable, I admit) - one for Probe and one for wipeout.

[Krovin-Rezh]

Wow, wrong about flat out & disembarking too? Why would they prohibit that? Seems like the only reason to have flat out in the shooting phase.

Okay, Grotesques. They still seem quite good. I mean, T5 W3 is going to soak up some damage. However, they rely heavily on their FNP save, which went from 4+ to 5+. Kinda sucks, but they don't have to worry about AP weapons. This just means they need cover even more than before. You might even attach the Baron to them just so they can go Stealth. If you're thinking about taking a WWP for the Talos, you might as well throw the Grotesques in there too. They fill very similar roles.

[UmbralPresence]

Wow, wrong about flat out & disembarking too? Why would they prohibit that? Seems like the only reason to have flat out in the shooting phase.

Well, I guess it's because everything (moving, shooting, assaulting - except for initiative steps) is suppose to be happening simultaneously in real life. That is, you don't unload your transport then going flat out - you just fly too fast whole turn to let passengers disembark.

[UmbralPresence]

Which, by the way, reminds me that nobody has answered my question about what happens to the passengers of the transport that mover more than 6" that turn and was wrecked or exploded...

[Hovey]

Any thoughts on how to get something useful out of grotesques (and other coven units)? Love all the models and want to find a way to use them effectively...

I was thinking maybe 3 or 4 with a haemie in a raider backed a raider full of wracks? Quite fluffy, room for 4 liquefiers between the 2 squads, and has some powerful CC punch. Maybe even give the haemie a WWP for a talos or 2 to pop out of. I know they wouldn't be able to assault right off the bat but that's still only 1 turn to get shot at before they're in CC.

Any thoughts/alternate strategies?

I had been running grotesques in 5th edition, with great success.

4x Grotesques, one with Liquifier & one upgraded to Abberation with Venom blade. (NOTE: Abberations weapons are gained, not replacing his close combat weapon, so he gets +1 attack with any weapon upgrade)
Join a Haemi to them /w Power Weapon & Liquifier. (I felt Agonizer was unnessasary as unit already has Furious Charge)
In a Raider.

Solid unit that could take on most non-terminator units.

I feel they are better now. Yes the Feel no pain is down to a 5+, but its practically invulnerable, requiring STR 10 or a Instant Death weapon to remove. One of the big liabilities under 5th, was if the haemi died. He could be killed by wait of fire in shooting phase (cause 2 wounds on all models, he could die rather easy) or he could be picked out in close combat. So now if 6th, he can be placed so shooting attacks do not go to him, and if some somehow do, he has a 2+ look out sir rule. If challenges arise, the abberation can take it.

Moving forward I plan on giving the Abberation the Flesh Gauntlet. Under most circumstances he with be 2+ re-roling to wound instant death with a nice healthy 6 attacks (on the charge).

[Setomidor]

I'm considering a grotesque unit similar to yours above and with the Baron attached. Wound shenanigans, T5 on the whole unit w.r.t shooting, assault & defensive grenades, hit and run, what is there not to like?

[Gaargod]

I'm considering a grotesque unit similar to yours above and with the Baron attached. Wound shenanigans, T5 on the whole unit w.r.t shooting, assault & defensive grenades, hit and run, what is there not to like?

It's slow. Baron is jump infantry, meaning he's not going in that raider with the Grotesques. Stealth is nice and all, but it's not worth the extra movement (even it's only for a turn).

To be honest, although hit & run and the PGL are great bonuses, I'm not sure the baron fits in the unit. He's amazing in, say, Hellions, just to swing at S6 and break tanks in combat. The Grotesques are already going to ripping tanks asunder, so he's less of a bonus.

I'd not saying he shouldn't be in your list. But what about presenting the opponent with multiple combat threats? Just a unit of grotesques is a problem. Them and a unit of Hellions with Baron rushing at you means 2 dangerous combat units.

[The_Klobb_Maniac]

Which, by the way, reminds me that nobody has answered my question about what happens to the passengers of the transport that mover more than 6" that turn and was wrecked or exploded...

While I have more faith in you than that; I'm just going to 'pretend' you're trolling.
Go to the rules forum; don't drag this thread down with the rest of them arguing about it

[Setomidor]

It's slow. Baron is jump infantry, meaning he's not going in that raider with the Grotesques. Stealth is nice and all, but it's not worth the extra movement (even it's only for a turn).

To be honest, although hit & run and the PGL are great bonuses, I'm not sure the baron fits in the unit. He's amazing in, say, Hellions, just to swing at S6 and break tanks in combat. The Grotesques are already going to ripping tanks asunder, so he's less of a bonus.

I'd not saying he shouldn't be in your list. But what about presenting the opponent with multiple combat threats? Just a unit of grotesques is a problem. Them and a unit of Hellions with Baron rushing at you means 2 dangerous combat units.

The Baron could either join Hellions or Grots during the course of the battle (for example, after disembarking the Grots from their raider). However, I have a feeling that Grots could benefit a lot more from Hit & Run than Hellions as they are much more resilient and therefore can use the Hit & Run effect in the opponents turn instead of in your own;

a) Fight assault as normal
b) In the opponents turn, disengage and move 3D6 in ANY direction (with reroll of distance), ignoring the unit(s) in combat and difficult terrain! This means you can run straight over the unit you where previously engaged with towards the core of the enemy army.
c) Assault something even more precious with your über-quick Grot unit. The average assault range including the Hit & Run move is about 26"!

[UmbralPresence]

While I have more faith in you than that; I'm just going to 'pretend' you're trolling.
Go to the rules forum; don't drag this thread down with the rest of them arguing about it

I'm sorry, didn't mean to troll. Seems like I'm just plain stupid. I'll go search the rules forum for that.

[Mushkilla]

Another battle report (against space wolves) if people are interested:

Battle report 4

Wyches seem just as squishy as ever. Not being able to keep an agoniser hekatrix safe with ablative wounds is a real pain.

[The_Klobb_Maniac]

Advice (even if it's pointing towards threads or earlier in the tactica) on Wyches would be lovely. I have a buddy still trying to get the feel for them in 6th.

So far I've thought of:
-Is it time to upgrade to Bloodbrides?
-Should he maybe run Haemons to add Fnp tokens early on?
-Maybe an archon leads the charge with a 2+?
-Still take haywires :s?

I.E. how do you survive overwatch with enough models to make a significant impact?

Also, do you "suicide rush" the opponent with all 5 (or whatever) raiders and force them to deal with being assaulted or do you hang back and assault with some discretion? Do you have preferences on special weapons now? I'd imagine Agonizers may be phased out somewhat? Hydra gauntlets or those swords may take precedence over the old tanking wargear?


Thanks for any info (or pointing me to it)

[Mushkilla]

Starting with a Haemi is a good option. Phantasm grenade launchers are not bad, combined with screening units they can give you a 4+ cover save.


For example:

I have a squad of 10 wyches and a squad of 5 wyches, both in transports. I disembark and move them in such a way that the squad of 5 is screening the squad of 10 from the unit they wish to assault. I can now shoot with both squads if I wish (although the enemy will get some cover saves). After shooting the squad of 10 charges through the gaps in the squad of 5. Overwatch is resolved before the unit is moved, as there is a intervening unit between the firer and the target, the charging squad of 10 wyches gets a 5+ cover save (4+ with the cheap phantasm grenade launcher the wyches have access to). Now that the target is locked in combat charge the remain squad of 5 wyches into the combat (who won't get overwatched, as the unit is has already fired overwatch).

Hope that helps, the big problem is raiders blowing up at S4. I think taking a Haemi with a liquifier who can just stay in the transport is not a bad choice, as FNP helps them out a bit.

[The_Klobb_Maniac]

Phantasms, I forgot all about that also being D-grenades. Even just a 6+ with a 5+ is decent survival chances:
1/6 + 1/3*5/6 = 8/18 = 4/9 = 44.44%

Basically slightly worse than a 4+ with the added bonus of FnP helping when they get real cover saves and making them effectively 3+ in combat. Neat.

Note: Phantasms will still only work within 8" though; will have to abuse fleet a little less

[Ribald]

Love your battle reports Mushkilla, going to be trying out some reavers thanks to you.

What is the program you use for the pics?

[Enigma6]

Really makes me consider a second reaver squad.

Each killing a long fang squad a turn? Yes please.

Was that through consistently exceptional rolling or can we just expect this kind of thing?

[danny-d-b]

well 9 guys with 3 cluster calatropes
looking at 12 S4 hits and 6 S6 hits
6 S4 wounds, 5 S5 wounds
3.66 dead marrines on avrag- its good rolling to wipe out a 5 man squad, but they will be severaly deplated by them (obvously 2 units will kill the squad on avarage)

[1 ++]

how do you survive overwatch with enough models to make a significant impact?

I think you've gotta think back to 5th ed play style when it comes to Wyches charging units and that is "Don't make it a fair fight for the enemy". I'd never charge the same amount of Wyches into the same amount of models in the target unit. I always found that an enemy unit of 4-6 was the "sweet-spot" in regards to winning combats in the OPPONENTS assault turn. (Don't kill on the charge basically)

I think this idea holds true even MORE in 6th, now with Overwatch.

The enemy unit that I wanted to assault, I would shoot down to about 4-6 (talking unit of 10 MEQ), using Warriors and/or Dissies, then charge in my unit of 8 Wyches. 4 MEQ on overwatch is a little easier to handle at this stage. 8 shots hitting on 6's, no real problem anymore.

Use this stratergy not just for Wyches protection but all charging units; Beasts, Incubi, etc.