In the previous edition I used 10 man units with grenades, they could either do their close combat thing, or surround a vehicle destroy it with the grenades and if its a transport kill all the crew within. I didn't use 5 man wych units though because they couldn't surround a vehicle and they didn't reliably enough destroyed vehicles.
On the blast pistol debate, I don't think it is worth it on a warrior squad, as you'll be buying the sybarite and the pistol. You also need I get much closer to use the pistol than the blaster.
In wyches, chances are you might be buying the hekatrix anyway for the venom blade, so it's less extra investment, and you'll be getting as close as possible anyway. in answer to the point that she can't then throw a grenade, just have a different model throw the grenade.
I still don't tend to buy one for my hekatrix, as I can always think of something else I need to spend the points on, but it's not a bad place to have one
More so to go up against Dreadnoughts in 5th.Originally Posted by toxic_wisdom
Grenades and a Shardnet where great against them tho. Hitting on 6's (if not stunned/immob) was tough, so to balance the numbers you take 9 or 10 Wyches.
Where as now in 6th, you only need 3 glances to wreck most vehicles, and 5 Wyches is pretty much the MSU way to do it.
Dark Eldar...
I'd say using blast pistols at all is a massive waste of 15 points, especially as HW grenades can be thrown further than blast pistols can fire. How often are you ever going to get to fire it anyway?
Even in 5th I'd always give my wyches HW grenades, as it just made them much more versatile for not that great a cost. Now however, HW is so much better than before due to HPs, and vehicles being WS1
LegionX
I agree, I still don't know how PK justified Blast Pistols being 50% more than the, frankly better, Fusion Pistol; or the same as the Blaster which has 3x the range, on a BS 7 Archon maybe (although it's still too expensive to take), but certainly not on a squad leader where it's most of the cost of the model!I'd say using blast pistols at all is a massive waste of 15 points, especially as HW grenades can be thrown further than blast pistols can fire. How often are you ever going to get to fire it anyway?
Even in 5th I'd always give my wyches HW grenades, as it just made them much more versatile for not that great a cost. Now however, HW is so much better than before due to HPs, and vehicles being WS1
Grenades: giving the Shardnet Wych something to do in the shooting phase!
As for blast pistols, 6" range is to short for me add to that that our characters generally will not be in front of the unit and you need to be pretty close to any enemy before you'll be able to shoot them.
So wait, you regularly equipped a full scoring unit of Wyches in 5E to hunt Dreadnoughts ? I didn't realize a 6" moving model posed such a threat to our mobile forces, that TROOPS needed to pause from their objective grabbing task and lock themselves in combat with Walkers - since we have no ranged option to handle them...
Last edited by toxic_wisdom; 16-09-2012 at 13:27.
"...you don't run internet lists, except for when you make a list and it becomes an internet list..."
Never fought a psyfileman, eh?
Sure, just don't recall ever having to assault the thing...
"...you don't run internet lists, except for when you make a list and it becomes an internet list..."
Can't get out of range most of the time. Can't shake it. Can't stun it. It can move around terrain to shoot. A single weapon destroyed and/or immobilized result leaves it still a serious threat. You have to kill it or lock it. And with mechspam carrying their Troops forward, spamming the back line with darklight was rarely an option for me. But I could zip a wych unit into their back lines, in position to charge even if their raider went down, and force them to choose between getting a significant chunk of their long-range firepower tied down, and turning back their Troops to deal with the threat. Since the latter was usually a game-losing option if they did it, my Wyches took down psyfilemen the rest of my army never could. And honestly, they couldn't have done much else; purifiers (with Sanctuary backup!) were not a good matchup for wyches, even in 5th.
EDIT: If I'm tailoring to play Grey Knights, I wouldn't bring close combat Troops at all, but my general lists have one or two units of wyches and they always get haywire grenades and quite frequently use them. ...Often on other Dark Eldar for some reason.
Last edited by Nurgling Chieftain; 16-09-2012 at 16:37.
Edited that for you, just because it tickled me when i misread it
Not really a tactic as such, but since wyches are the topic of the day i thought i would throw my 2p into the pot, the models are exceptional, just finished building another little unit, those girls/guys are great models, and haywire grenades are always worth the extra 10 pts, just in case. Mine are intended as dedicated tank hunters, so wouldnt really be much use without them.
On about wyches, how do people feel about the upgrades, i'm a big fan of hydra gauntlets, though this is mostly for aesthetic reasons, the extra couple of attacks will never really be worth an extra model. Razorflails i cant see any reason at all to take? Shardnet obviously has uses, but again, do people really think it is worth the points in a 5 man unit, or only in larger units? when you can get 2 or 3 nets into contact with any particularly threatening model.
I will buy teutogen guard if anyone is selling them, and for a very good price. PM if you have any your willing to part with
Makes me wish wyches kept their 3e rules. That way you can just customize the models however you want without worrying about what weapons have what effect.
smh...heading to the movies now, and maybe after I will reconsider this option - but highly unlikely.
"...you don't run internet lists, except for when you make a list and it becomes an internet list..."
Yeah, this. I really dislike the way the handle wych weapons now...on top of the fact that I think the shardnet looks idiotic and the hydra gauntlets look bad ass...
Resident Evil: Retribution...well, no spoliers here - back to tactics. Looking forward to a game this Friday night agsinst my friend's Deathwing list for a local league. Thinks its gonna be a good example of why to not bring knives to a gunfight...well, Thunderhammers rather.
"...you don't run internet lists, except for when you make a list and it becomes an internet list..."
Shardnet is usually the one I'd choose, out of razor flails/gauntlets from memory the flails yield better results generally because rerolls are golden when youre str 3. On the other hand the different drug results benefit different specials differently, adrenalight (+1 A) is obviously more useful for a razorflailer, whereas painbringer (reroll to wound) benefits the gauntlets more.
Having said that I made my second wych weapon up as gauntlets because I thought she looked cooler with enormous barbed gloves.
It's also worth pointing out that it's rarely a question of "special weapon isnt worth an extra body" because the size of your transport limits your ability to take additional bodies anyway.
Last edited by Spiney Norman; 17-09-2012 at 06:26.
any argument to say that they're thinking of us by turning metal to resin is as convincing as a frenzied Khorne worshipper covered in blood, still chomping on a victim, with a Khorne sigil tattooed to his forhead pleading a case of mistaken identity when questioned about a murder.
An interesting thing to consider, seeing as an extra wych is normally just as effective as a wych weapon, is that an extra wych leads to an extra S4 attack when their raider snuffs it (so you are paying for something that has roughly a 2/3 chance of dying), a wych weapon does not result in an extra hit. Also now that you allocate the wounds when a vehicle explodes you can make sure you don't lose said wych weapon.
Last edited by Mushkilla; 17-09-2012 at 09:18.
Fellow Dark Eldar join me in The Dark City!
^^ thats a very good point, i'd never considered that before
I will buy teutogen guard if anyone is selling them, and for a very good price. PM if you have any your willing to part with
I think you need to:
-Do some math
-Diversify y'alls bonds
So the math says that while Hydra's are flashy, they underperform relative to razor flails in the general case (rolling 3.5 attacks) and IIRC, wherever it was that I posted the math, it was a significant difference, almost an extra *wound* a turn or so. Big deal IMO; same points, better effectiveness. Also noteworthy is that it *way* out performs Hydras as you get into T5/T6 because re-rolls become better than more attacks as you go up (as each attack has *over* double the chance to wound.) You also can't fluff a combat based on a single bad dice roll (1 attack!)
Also, shardnets are mostly for MCs and Dreads. Like the old 3rd ed DE, the wyches still have utility in sitting on a Wraithlord, Dread, or something similar, and forcing it into a combat that it eventually loses (and they may even kill it that turn.) Shardnets are *not* for ICs, Boyz, or some other unit; it merely helps. Still; when it comes to something like boyz, better to clear the killzone (or more of it anyway) than to strangle a few attacks. Killing more does the same thing.
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