is it just me or did the CSM's daemon prince just get nurfed?

[Deldar]

hi seers,

just been looking at the codex and FAQ for codex: CSM and it seems to me that the daemon prince is now totally replaceable...

here's why...

a chaos sorcerer can be T6 (tougher than a prince... )
can have 2 powers (same as a prince)
ca hide in a unit of 3-10 T6 models and thus take less wounds (an average 5 man unit and the sorcerer have 8 wounds, daemon prince has 4)
the unit can carry special weapons for termie killing (the prince has to charge and get his **** kicked)
the sorcerer has a force weapon (the daemon price is just a MC)

so has the mighty daemon prince become "small and mighty" or just a run of the mill "i'll leave it on the shelf to look good" unit

[Mr. Ultra]

Maybe we have to wait for the incoming Codex: Chaos Space Marines, and the Daemon Prince will be back to the battlefields.

[Charax]

and we don't even get Flying Monstrous Creatures, unlike the Chaos Daemons Daemon Princes *sulk*

yeah, daemon princes are kind of pointless unless you really, really want Smash

[Deldar]

true, but at least for the next 2 - 3 months while they sort out the rumoured chaos release to co-inside with the new starter set the DP's will be staying on my shelf, i would rather use 2 sorcerers

they are T6, have 2 powers, a force weapon and can hide in a unit
the DP, has 1 power, T5 and is a MC with only 4 wounds and a 3+ save, so charge him with termies or something like eldar banshees and he's dead as power weapons just became ap3...

[TheMav80]

How are the Sorcs T6?

[Deldar]

because according to the CMS faq the +1 for mark of nurgle and being on a bike stack, however with the new rules now there is no T4(5) the rules say that you are to disreguard this and just use the values in the brackets, thus your guy becomes T5 with the mark and +1 for riding a bike

all your bikers also become T6
marine bikers are only T5 base, see chaos does pay

just as a quick update I will post the 2 FAQ quotes here for T6 bikes

quote
"Two toughness values: Where a model has two toughness valuespresented on it's profile, one of which is presented in brackets, always use the bracketed value. Ignor the other value entirely"

quote
"With nurgle bikers: is the +1 from the mark of nurgle cumulative with the +1 from riding a bike? answer: yes, they are T6"

this would seem to suggest bikers of nurgle are going to become popular

[Fawful]

Nurgle bikers are still ridiculously expensive and don't benefit from these new rules at all since they only have 1 wound and no feel no pain. So I don't think we will see more of them. A sorcerer on a bike with mark of nurgle is also fairly expensive and he can't buy lash. But the new powers may make up for that.

[Deldar]

a sorcerer on a bike with nurgle is 155pts, the same as a lash prince with wings, however the DP is only T5, the sorcerer is T6 making him a little mover servivable, not sure how to go about powers though, do you have to "buy" the powers from the codex with points or simply "generate" them from the BRB essentially for free?

Note: the 155pts stated is without powers in refrence to the above statement about pts costs

[Charax]

You buy the codex powers then swap them out

[Deldar]

thats what I thought but if you look at the more up to date books, SM, Nids ect, they dont but there powers, they simply say this model knows/has the following powers...

[Charax]

nuts, I misread - you just roll for them up to the number you're allowed to have, from any disciplines you're allowed to have - unless the psyker knows certain powers specifically (as is the case with most Grey Knights units, for example)

[Deldar]

though i came across a nice rules query abouth that in the CMS codex... want me to pm you and see what you think?

[chizal]

i wonder how many plague marine lists are going to be taking epidemius as an ally

[Bonzai]

i wonder how many plague marine lists are going to be taking epidemius as an ally

In short? All of them.

[Deldar]

oh yes.., was thinking that myself, however in 2 - 3 months you might find plauge marines get a nurf with the new codex roumerd

has anyone else seen the psyker rules query yet becuase of the old wording..?

[malisteen]

Wait winged daemon princes aren't flying monstrous creatures? Despite that the chaos marine winged daemon prince in the white dwarf battle was a flying monstrous creature?

[Deldar]

nope, there not

the codex: chaos daemons version on the DP is
the codex: chaos space marines version is not

i know makes sense right...

[Deldar]

can i ask you seers an odd question or 2 please?

[Deldar]

charax, ill pm you now, just for a friendly chat about something that seems to be FUBAR lol

[FallenAfh]

nope, there not

the codex: chaos daemons version on the DP is
the codex: chaos space marines version is not

i know makes sense right...

Because the CSM Daemon prince doesn't pay as much as the Daemon version or the Hive Tyrant for wings?