Tactica Daemonica - 6th Ed

[Dervos]

So gathering from various person's experiences wing's are finally worth paying for a majority of the time with the new flying MC rules? I have not had a chance to use Chaos daemons in 6th yet.

Diving doesn't seem to matter as a +5 invuln save doesn't really matter when BT already has a better one and the daemon prince has a similiar save already.

Needing to rolls 6's to hit swooping MC's looks glorious, but I wonder if Vector strike is subject to snap fire against other flyers.

Is the D3+1 auto matic hits or do you still have to roll BS for them?

[Azazel]

The hits are automatic. Yes they can hurt Zooming Flyers.

With the new rules in the latest White Dwarf I have been replacing my DPs with units of Screamers. They do everything a Daemon Prince can do better.

Daemon Prince:
Wings, MoT, BoT, Daemonic Gaze.

For 5 points more you can get 9 Screamers.

9 Screamers have 31 more Attacks on the Charge. 14 more Wounds. Vector Strike with D3+1 STR 5 AP 3 hits? A unit of Screamers does 9D3 STR 4 AP - hits (and can move further in a single turn).

They are absolutely brutal. Which is why 27 regularly feature in my army now.

[Lord Squidar]

A word of warning to the users of big flying monsters (or anything for that matter) Dark Eldar bikers with cluster caltrops and blade vanes auto hit stuff they move over, even swooping daemons, and they absolutely tear you to shreds! Target priority number 1. Otherwise flying around and vector striking things is awesome, you can rack up a really high tally on light vehicles this way. If using a thirster, I would still glide in and smash a heavy tank.

Oh I used unholy might on the vector strike (will do so until FAQ says otherwise) and it was nice being able to fly around and insta kill the allied crisis suits the guy had. It now becomes a big choice whether to vector strike or glide in. Vector strike keeps you safe in the following turn, but assaulting causes more hits, but if you fight your way out of combat, you are toast.

[Gig]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask since Blight Drones are from a forge world expansion but How do Blight Drones (Vehicle Flyer) and Daemonic Assault interact I know that them being Flyers means they have to start in reserve but so does every model in the daemon army, I've been told that they don't benefit from it even when taken as part of our army since there not in the main codex.

[Dervos]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask since Blight Drones are from a forge world expansion but How do Blight Drones (Vehicle Flyer) and Daemonic Assault interact I know that them being Flyers means they have to start in reserve but so does every model in the daemon army, I've been told that they don't benefit from it even when taken as part of our army since there not in the main codex.

Well I'd start with looking at whatever book their rules are in(IA volume?), the profile should state something regarding it.

Since it is a "daemon" I would assume they are beholden to the daemonic assault rule but the main codex doesn't have any vehicle flyers and it says to deep strike your units. So if the IA volume doesn't have anything specific I guess you'd have to deep strike them in from reserve.

[Gig]

That is what I thought but my opponent and the GW manager thought otherwise saying that it doesn't have the codex daemon rule, just the USR version.

[WeeDawgNYC]

What's the deal with Keeper of Secrets? I see few mention of it & Slaanesh gd's. are these units not worth taking? Can anyone share their pro's & con's with me?

[CrownAxe]

The problem with Keeper of Secrets (and GDs in general) is that they don't have greater damage or survivability over similer units for their point cost. The only advantage KoS has is WS8 and I10 but with only 4 wounds at 4++, even at T6, it will fall over to very little small arms fire. Compare that to taking a unit of 6 fiends you're getting 5 times as many attacks at almost the same strength with rending, 4.5 times as many wounds and is even more mobile being beasts and having hit&run.

[D6Damager]

With the new rules in the latest White Dwarf I have been replacing my DPs with units of Screamers. They do everything a Daemon Prince can do better.

Not quite. Screamers will have a harder time with zooming flyers. They can't even hurt a zooming stormraven or valkyrie/vendetta at all. A Prince with bolt can still fire in any direction after they vector. The new screamer models are slightly longer than Eldar jetbikes trying to deepstrike 9 of them will be alot more cumbersome than a single DP on a 60mm base.

I'll take prince smash attacks vs. a land raider or monolith over str 5 armorbane.

[CrownAxe]

You ignore the massive amount of attacks screamers get. Because of it, screamers are better at destroying land raiders then daemon princes

[Vestigialante]

I advocate a balanced approach. Shooty Tzeentch, or jackass Pavane Slaaneshi princes, coupled with a fever or two (apparently that's the proper collective plural for manta rays, so I'm going to go with it) of screamers. You get your higher strength vector strikes and smash attacks -when necessary-, and let the screamers handle what they do best, which is to murderize everything but valkyrie and landraider equivalents.

[jospoon]

I'm using my daemons ally with IG to get 2 vendettas to reliably handle enemy flyers.

[Vestigialante]

Vendettas are a perfectly viable option. Personally, I'm biding my time until [Arbitrary time between next month and the end of the year] when the new CSM codex is released. That dragon thing sounds like exactly what we need, and if it takes a fast attack slot we still have FOC room for flakk havocs.

[Minigiant]

Im looking at starting a 1500pt non-allied daemon army and im not looking for it to be conquering any grand tournaments any time soon but i dont want them to be rolled over either. Does anyone have any good advice for army list design? Im open to using any of the four gods.

[Exc20002001]

Fateweaver and spam screamers, you got speed and versatility bar shooting. The rest is up to you

[CrownAxe]

Has anyone actually experimented with allies yet? I'm looking at IG for real good gun support and vendettas, but Nob Bikers and Plague Marines look real useful to us too (especially when the Chaos Dragon Flyer comes out).

[slaede]

Nob Bikers add nothing you can't already do with Bloodcrushers just as well. They don't even score for you. If you want to take Orks, you want Lootaz, a Dakkajet and some grotz manning a quad gun in a Bastion. Even then, you'd rather take IG to do the same job.

[slaede]

So gathering from various person's experiences wing's are finally worth paying for a majority of the time with the new flying MC rules? I have not had a chance to use Chaos daemons in 6th yet.

Diving doesn't seem to matter as a +5 invuln save doesn't really matter when BT already has a better one and the daemon prince has a similiar save already.

Needing to rolls 6's to hit swooping MC's looks glorious, but I wonder if Vector strike is subject to snap fire against other flyers.

Is the D3+1 auto matic hits or do you still have to roll BS for them?

The vector strikes are automatic hits against flyers, but only the Bloodthirster is strong enough to have a decent chance to damage a flyer, and 270 points is way too many for that job. Everybody sort of went nuts over flying daemons when 6th first dropped, but now they're starting to realize they're still overpriced, underpowered and easily killed. There are better options.

[bebe]

I advocate a balanced approach.

I concur to a point. Screamers are ace. I use only two squads of 8 at 1500 because points are tough to allocate and increase to three squads at 1750. but I run a strange list at 1500 now. I tried flying circus. I tried flamers/horrors/screamer spam lists. I've had my best results at 1500 running fateweaver and blue scribes as my HQ. Add in two squads of flamers and three min squads of deamonettes (yes - deamonettes - they are cheap), a squad of horrors w/ changeling (scribe goes here), plaguebearers and two squads of screamers. It's worked very well for me. On paper it looks awkward - one flyer only/deamonttes/blue scribes ... does not seem optimal. Butn I have my theory on 6ed.
- take at least five troop choices.
- take units that will destroy your opponents troop choices.
My list does both well it seems.

So gathering from various person's experiences wing's are finally worth paying for a majority of the time with the new flying MC rules?

I would not go overboard on flyers. They have their pros and cons. At 2000 I use only two. Well Fateweaver is an auto-include for me in any list 1500+. So at 2000 I'll add a DP. But I'm not going overboard. The flying daemon list is a glass cannon.

Has anyone actually experimented with allies yet?

i have not yet. I don't have the requisite models - all I have are GK, Eldar and Nids sitting around and I'm dumping my Eldar - have a buyer already. I will probably trade my Gk for IG and make a good solid tournament list. I think it makes sense. Fateweaver with IG - yes please. My Nids I'm keeping. I like the challenge of using a codex that clearly is not top tier.

I would add this to a daemon list ...

Primaris Psyker 70
10 Veterans, 3 Grenade Launchers, Autocannon 95
Vendetta Gunship 130
Griffon 75
Total: 370

[Reece]

Does anyone know where to get the new rules for the Screamers and Flamers? I checked the GW site and they're not up. I can't find the old SoB update either.

-Reece