6th ed power weapon question

[Azeroth133]

Listed in the power weapon entry are 3 main types

Sword
Axe
Maul


Am I correct that If I pay for a power weapon on a model can I choose any of these as long as i model it correctly?

[Shadowlance]

Right on the money! Though out of the three the maul is still absolutely rubbish.


Cheers
Shadowlance

[ehlijen]

Unless your codex specifies which you have (and hasn't been overruled by the FAQ), yes you get to choose.

[Balerion]

My initial instinct is to take a less lenient view on this than you guys do.

The rule says, "If a model's wargear says it has a power weapon which has no further special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has; if it's a sword or a dagger, it's a power sword; if it's an axe or a halberd, it's a power axe; if it's a blunt weapon like a mace or a staff, it's a power maul; if it's a spear or a lance, it's a power lance."

That implies to me that you assess weapon type based on what the model was supplied with. Converting a different type of weapon would be modeling for advantage.

[Scalebug]

Converting a different type of weapon would be modeling for advantage.

Well, yes, of course it is, but the question is; Don't we think that it is absolutely intended to be allowed? It is not the same thing as crouching Wraithlords-style modelling for advantage against TLOS and such.

If you were to "enforce" that models only should have what powerweapons they are supplied with, the only real pieces that would be affected would be Eldar Banshees, Space Marine Terminator Sergeants, and then on a case-by-case basis various older Guard or Space Marine characters... the majority of units in the game that can have power-weapons nowadays come in boxes with options.

I welcome the change, though with the cynical view that we are going to see a lot more...not so good... conversions than cool looking Banshee axes (don't think there have been any Eldar Power Axe other than on some of the original Harlequins, and Fuegans fire-axe), and both the skilled and more entuseastic than skilled examples are going to be over-shadowed by the wave of whiney forum posts on how GW have screwed over the Eldar with not having models, and/or demands to be allowed "counts as" axes for swords...

Great opportunity to make a conversion pack though, anyone betting against we are going to see third party "Futuristic Elf energized hatchet" packs before GW makes one?

[vodrake]

Go dante and his initiative 1 axe.....

[Tethylis]

don't think there have been any Eldar Power Axe other than on some of the original Harlequins, and Fuegans fire-axe

Once upon a time, some Banshee's did come with a power axe.

[Lastie]

For the sake of hypothesis, if Banshees could be given Power Axes what would take precedence: Unwieldy or Banshee Masks (Intiative 1 or 10?). Both are characteristic sets (as defined on page 2). Do we get to choose which to apply first? Intiative 10, Strength 4, AP 2 Banshees don't sound too healthy ... for my opponent at any rate.

[Balerion]

Well, yes, of course it is, but the question is; Don't we think that it is absolutely intended to be allowed? It is not the same thing as crouching Wraithlords-style modelling for advantage against TLOS and such.

If you were to "enforce" that models only should have what powerweapons they are supplied with, the only real pieces that would be affected would be Eldar Banshees, Space Marine Terminator Sergeants, and then on a case-by-case basis various older Guard or Space Marine characters... the majority of units in the game that can have power-weapons nowadays come in boxes with options.

I welcome the change, though with the cynical view that we are going to see a lot more...not so good... conversions than cool looking Banshee axes (don't think there have been any Eldar Power Axe other than on some of the original Harlequins, and Fuegans fire-axe), and both the skilled and more entuseastic than skilled examples are going to be over-shadowed by the wave of whiney forum posts on how GW have screwed over the Eldar with not having models, and/or demands to be allowed "counts as" axes for swords...

Great opportunity to make a conversion pack though, anyone betting against we are going to see third party "Futuristic Elf energized hatchet" packs before GW makes one?

I'm sympathetic to this interpretation. I'm just not sure it's what GW intended.

Thankfully I play nids, so I don't have to think too hard about it.

[RunepriestRidcully]

Does anyone have any idea what Relic blades count as? It does not say in the faq.

[Mr_Rose]

Does anyone have any idea what Relic blades count as? It does not say in the faq.

Why would it need to? It's a power weapon with benefits, making it an 'unusual power weapon' and AP3 in addition to the strength bonus.

[Fluxeor]

Neither the rulebook or Faq address relic blades specifically, however thier entry in Codex Space Marines lists them as power weapons (and mentions axe or sword) that resolve hits at S6 but don't benefit from +1a from additional CCWs. That should still apply (and makes an axe version somewhat pointless).

[Scalebug]

Chances are we will see certain units with the type of weapon defined as 6th ed codexes move along (like how the poor SM Chaplains already having had their Croziuz established as being power mauls in the FAQ/Errata), the Banshees being explicitly armed with power swords rather than "power weapons" being not unlikely. Unless they, as we can pretty safely guess, intend to go with plastic banshees next version, and include both axes and swords in the box.

As for now, and the Banshee armamanet and mask interaction; While it doesn't feel entirely right for the mask to over-rule the downside of the axe, it doesn't feel right that it would be the other way either, what with the Mask being very much the defining feature of the unit there... personally, I'd let the Mask take precedence, as you would still be at the low Initiative in subsequent rounds, so it is not a total ignoring of the limitation.

Neither the rulebook or Faq address relic blades specifically, however thier entry in Codex Space Marines lists them as power weapons (and mentions axe or sword) that resolve hits at S6 but don't benefit from +1a from additional CCWs. That should still apply (and makes an axe version somewhat pointless).

Well, yes, the strength is there for you, but the question is what AP to use?

[Nymie_the_Pooh]

I think it's easier for now to say they have a choice based on modeling than to FAQ into each entry all three types for the same cost.

[Fluxeor]

Well, yes, the strength is there for you, but the question is what AP to use?

Presumably AP3 as per the Unusual Power Weapon entry mentioned by Mr_Rose (Relic Blades seem to meet the criteria for it).

[ehlijen]

Did you all just not want Mr Rose to be correct? A relic blade is an unusual power weapon and therefor defined as AP3 right in the book.

As for banshees with axes: I'd go by the lash whip FAQ and roll to see which applies each time it comes up (it uses banshee masks vs whips as an example).

[Spiney Norman]

My initial instinct is to take a less lenient view on this than you guys do.

The rule says, "If a model's wargear says it has a power weapon which has no further special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has; if it's a sword or a dagger, it's a power sword; if it's an axe or a halberd, it's a power axe; if it's a blunt weapon like a mace or a staff, it's a power maul; if it's a spear or a lance, it's a power lance."

That implies to me that you assess weapon type based on what the model was supplied with. Converting a different type of weapon would be modeling for advantage.

The stupid thing is that they made different versions of the power weapon inherently superior to others, no-one is ever going to take a power maul, because it's clearly not worth the points you will pay for it, axes on the other hand a under-costed compared to swords so I foresee many conversion opportunities.

[WildWeasel]

The axes that go at I1 and are only substantially better when swinging on 2+ armor? Sure, you wound a little easier than with a sword - unless you get killed before that swing.

And mauls may not be the bane of power armor, but the +2 S doesn't put them far behind, and they are better than swords against anything but 3+ armor. Not to mention MEQs get S6 hits on vehicle rear armor. And they get concussion to boot.

Whereas swords just kill power armor at I.

Mauls are actually really good all arounders. Axes are fists that gave up 2-3 S for one attack (assuming dual wield), and a ten point discount. If the field weren't so full of MEQs, the maul would be the superior choice, but as it is, the swords will see enough 3+ to keep them a pretty common choice. Axes are rather weak sauce. Going to I1 is enough of a blow that the extra points for more S is a no brainier, even giving the DW bonus.

As for "modeling for advantage": GW clearly considers these weapons to all be pretty much equivalent: they cost the same, and codexes that refer to "power swords" as the generic have largely been FAQ'd to refer to "power weapons".

[Balerion]

Do you guys think there's any potential for weapon mixing shenanigans? If it's on model-by-model conversion basis you could have five Banshees with swords, and five with axes. Whether or not that would be advantageous in certain situations I haven't yet figured out, but it seems like it could (ie. assume an extended formation, charge with the swords at the front, clear out models, take the pile-ins on the sword models, and then pile-in your axes to clean up).

edit: though Banshees probably aren't the best example, since they may be hitting with I10 axes anyway

[Minsc]

Go dante and his initiative 1 axe.....

Go Khârn with your initiative 1 axe.
Go Typhus with your poisoned initiative 1 reaper...axe?