Tactica: Chaos Space Marines - 6th Edition

[Asher]

The 6th edition is upon us and while it seems that there will be e new CSM codex out fairly soon, we still have some time until then to look at how current Chaos fares with the new rules. As a DG player, I will mainly concentrate on nurgly stuff, but it seems that in general the gods were merciful on their followers.

Good changes from a Death Guard perspective:

Thoughness 4(5) counts as Thoughness 5: Probably the biggest change! Infantry and characters are more resilent and bikes zoom around with a T6.

FNP: At first the reduction to 5+ seemed like a down side. But FNP now works against everything but instant death. Together with T5 plaque marines now have FNP against all but Railguns and Dreadnough CCWs.

Rapid Fire: Infantry with rapid fire weapons now have a greater threat range. Plasmaguns seem more useful now, as they can glance a vehicle to death.

Overwatch: Nice addition to thin out those attackers.

Allies: Daemons are back. We will probably see quite a few Epidemius + DG lists. Epidemius abilities seem to work on Plaquemarines too!

[Infidel]

Or Fateweaver

That reroll.

[IAMNOTHERE]

Blastmaster got a boost; can snap fire when they move for BS1 blast - that stays S8 even if the hole misses a vehicle.

[DigitalDogParty]

Um, yeah...

Now that bracketed toughness doesn't lose to instant death, those T6 Nurgle bikes are lookin' pretty solid...

[White_13oy]

I didn't think possessed could get any worse, but I was proven wrong.

Also, Kharn getting a power axe is a mixed feeling. Nice that he can still kill 2+ saves, but now he strikes last and only has a 3+ armor save. So PW squads/characters will tear him a new one since he can't thin them down first.

[sergentzimm]

I didn't think possessed could get any worse, but I was proven wrong.

Also, Kharn getting a power axe is a mixed feeling. Nice that he can still kill 2+ saves, but now he strikes last and only has a 3+ armor save. So PW squads/characters will tear him a new one since he can't thin them down first.

Yeah I was sad to see this one. Hopefully he will get an invulnerable or a special rule to bring him back to power.

[Sappysid101]

I cant see mech happening as much, after watching some games today anything other than raiders melt sooooo fast to token shooting. I can see myself rolling massive squads (15-20) with plasma and taking advantage of these snapshot reactions to charging. Mixing in a blob squad and a squadron of basilisks for my iron warriors as well :P oh fliers are a pain in the ***. Bring missiles to deal with them (because we all needed more reason to bring missiles as a marine). Kharn changes suck. Ummm fortifications are a nice change, the aegis defence lines are really cheap and provide 4+ cover saves with 2+ go to ground, can see myself bringing those to every game. New missions are nice be prepared to not contest / cap while in a vehicle. They're really pushing foot slogging from what i've seen.

- Sid

[CULCHAIN]

Small dev squad with 4x ML a must for now.
My Noise marines got a boost
I'll hold off using Kharn in my world eaters
My DG bikers got a boost
TS will still wait for new codex
Praetors will take one blob squad and all units with plasma and autocannon all around
Our DP's flight not as good as Daemons

[CaptainAwesome]

Using lash to pull heavy/special weapon guys out of cover then focus firing is going to be very useful.

[murphyj]

New edition has rolled around and I've decided to take a fresh look at CSM but I have a couple of questions

1. Can Aspiring Sorcerers choose a power from the new psychic schools or are they stuck with the powers from the codex?
2. Givings mark to various squads e.g Terminators/Tacticals/Havocs/Bikers... Do the marks really just apply to a single model or do they apply to the while unit? I cannot imagine why anyone would pay the huge points costs for a single model and I always assumed the mark applied to the whole unit.

[Gimp]

Chaos Lords and the Special Characters can now join non fearless squads like Terminators and by doing so make the squad fearless. This is a big big big boost.

Typhus seems to be a solid HQ.
He is toughness 5 now so in most cases he wont be instant killed and will be able to use his feel no pain.
He is also AP 2 which is far better than Abaddons AP 3
Also he is a psycher. Thats some good options.

Kharn took a tumble having an the AP 2 is cool but strikes last and unlike Typhus we wont be able to survive power fists and power klaws.

Princes well most certainly not as cool as the Demon ones.

Termiantors got relentless which is great.

Interested in Thousand Sons having 4+ invul and ap 3 guns is better in a world dominated by 5+ cover.

Also Plague Marines will also be interesting. While feel no pain is only 5+ now, there are however ot many ST 10 weapons out there so they will get it more often.

[KharnTheBetrayer01]

Thousand Sons are suddenly much more fun. a constant armament of AP3 Rapid fire bolters, and a psyker in every unit suddenly seems a lot more promising. My personal pick for the sorcerers would be Pyromancy (Fiery Form - 4+ invulnerable save... Added to MoT for a 3+ invulnerable, +2 strength for a respectful 6 and force weapons? Plus Soul Blaze? Tasty.... That said, nothing against Fire Shield or the sheer number of powers that ignore cover saves either, given that those were a major weakness of the TS's last edition)

I'm sad about Kharn dropping down to initiative 1, but he's still an absolute beast against vehicles. Besides, Winged Demon Princes, particularly of a Tzeentchian nature, could well prove to be a hilarious alternative HQ. Vector Strike plus spell 1 of pyromancy is going to make for a hellishly tough thing. Shame we can't get any battlebrothers with Biomancy, Endurance could make for some Terrifying daemonic types...

[RunepriestRidcully]

Used to always take of Bolt of Change on all my Sorcerers/Aspiring sorcerers, but I can see myself using a mixture of the rule book lores, am thinking Familiars may now be worth it, take one plus doombolt and bolt of change and swap the non bolt of change powers for lore ones? I am thinking of doing a few Aspiring sorcerers with axes now as well, shame my HQ sorcerer has a staff, (AP4 makes them and maces almost useless in a power armour rich environment) however he may not need it using the telepathy spells (he is an athenae after all)
Reduced cover saves and spell variety make my thousand sons happy, shame we can't take all lores though.

[Minsc]

I have mixed feelings about Thousand Sons.
AP3 is better now with worse coversaves, they can always move 6" except when moving trough terrain, and having a ML(1) psyker in the unit is nice.

But they still cost way to much, they can't overwatch, they can't run, your Asp.Sorc automatically dies if he rolls 2 or 12 on his P.test, and they die to small arms-fire/when charged.

[Terminus Est Gunner]

I have mixed feelings about Thousand Sons.
AP3 is better now with worse coversaves, they can always move 6" except when moving trough terrain, and having a ML(1) psyker in the unit is nice.

But they still cost way to much, they can't overwatch, they can't run, your Asp.Sorc automatically dies if he rolls 2 or 12 on his P.test, and they die to small arms-fire/when charged.

Why can't they overwatch?

[Minsc]

Slow and Purposeful units can't overwatch.
They Asp. Sorc might still be able to overwatch with his boltpistol but...whooopeedeef*ckingdooo.

[Charax]

So Obliterators can't overwatch? Oh gawd that's bad

[Agnos]

Has anyone put together any ideas about what kinds of lists can be fielded in the new rules, specifically given the ability to fill holes with other armies? I've always considered a Valkyrie as a big threat, especially with the kind of close range support Chaos is able to put out. Perhaps Bloodletters or Horrors?

[KharnTheBetrayer01]

At the moment the problem is that, what with having few to no battle brothers, most of the more interesting interactions are lost to us. That's where the Allies Matrix got really interesting, and... I don't think we even get Daemons.

So at the moment we're just shoring up our weaknesses with other teams units.

That said, I have always wanted an excuse to get some decent fast attack into my list, and now I can ally with Dark Eldar... Okay, Decent may be stretching it, but still, hellions!

[NitrosOkay]

Thousand Sons are hosed in a number of ways. The cover rules are the only saving grace.

The aforementioned no invulnerable for perils and inability to overwatch plus the advantage of being stationary for rapid fire disappearing.

Then we don't get grenades like every other marine so we can't hit monstrous creatures at strength 6. Our force weapons are AP 3. All the old weaknesses and ridiculous cost per model are there. And they rely on transports because of slow and purposeful and transports are worse.

At least we're mastery level 2.

P 66
"In older codexes, Mastery Level may be written out long hand in the form of a special rule that allows the Psyker to use more than one psychic power each turn - the number of powers that can be used per turn is their Mastery level."

Chaos Marine Codex
"Models with the Mark of Tzeentch may use two psychic powers per turn."

Also Daemon Princes not getting the Flying Monstrous Creature rule sucks.