With the Flyers being unable to even contest, it strikes me as a list that could have a lot of those Tau-style games where you outkill the enemy at a 2:1 ratio but badly lose the actual game. If 30 Orks decide to plop down on an objective, what can you do about it? Even MEQ aren't falling over in droves to Destructors.
I'm just not entirely sold on the concept beyond it being annoying to kill and people not being accustomed to dealing with it yet. Flyer lists are going to be all shock-and-awe for a few months, but we already know there are downsides. It's just a matter of people learning to actually exploit those downsides instead of going "OH LORD WE DON'T HAVE SKYFIRE WE CAN'T POSSIBLY WIN."
A phrase you hear a lot at tournaments is "playing the mission" rather than "playing the game." People playing the game set out from Turn 1 with the sole goal of killing enemy models in a list from Scariest Thing to Least Scary Thing and don't think beyond that until about Turn 4. People playing the mission understand where they need to be and how to prevent their opponent from being where they need to be, and set out to doing that, even at the cost of killing enemy models when necessary.
Once people calm the hell down and play the missions rather than blindly trying to kill everything they see, I think we'll see a huge shift in the opinion on Flyers.
Last edited by DJ3; 04-07-2012 at 18:55.
With that said - the best way to remove MEQ/horde bodies is still through assault. CCB is solid on the paper (D6 S6 HoW + Assault/Challenge > Sweep + Shooting + D6 HoW + Assault) and Wraiths are just as versatile as they were before. A Destroyer with 2+/MSS + Wraiths might be the strongest CC unit we can field for that point range.
So I'm curious about CCB in close combat. The BRB does not make it clear if models in base contact with the CCB can strike the lord OR the charriot as it is still a vehicle.
It's a little odd just because it's a new concept, but not particularly unclear.
I'm pretty sure the Chariot rules say that the rider is considered to be in base contact with all models that are in base contact with the chariot. So, the enemy unit is in base contact with both, and can assault both.
I'm not sure if he'll suddenly be viable because of it, but the Chariot rules are a pretty huge boon to Trazyn. He can ride around smacking people with the Empathic Obliterator while benefitting from 2+ armour and being a serious threat as a scoring unit due to the sudden added mobility.
If he gets in over his head, Surrogate Hosts will bring him back somewhere safe, and you didn't lose a whole unit attempting his shenanigans.
I know that there's going to be serious diminishing returns, but MSS would technically work with a CCB. I know a lot of players were buying weave for CCB but I wonder if that should be swapped out for MSS being the same points. The lord is already getting a 2+ armor while embarked. I also don't remember seeing it in the FAQ but does the BRB sweep replace the sweep rules for the CCB?
Last edited by Alsiaie; 04-07-2012 at 21:15.
I don't think if the overlord assaults or gets assaulted while on the CCB, the enemy unit can hit the CCB and not the overlord. What if the chariot gets destroyed in mid combat, say I4, what happens next? The assault phase stops suddenly?
They do need to clarify what happens if the Chariot is destroyed, but the lack of that clarification does not somehow grant the Chariot immunity from CC--which is what your version would equate to. Even models that charge the Chariot would be unable to attack it, which clearly can't be right.
Best guess is that the Assault would effectively end. It clearly says you're not locked in combat, and when your Overlord follows the disembarkation rules for being Wrecked/Explodes, he wouldn't be able to go within 1" of the enemy models.
Page 83, moving skimmers "if a skimmer is forced to end its move over friendly or enemy models, move the skimmer the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it."
That wasn't in the old book. If that rule is applied to deep striking models, then the monolith has its deep strike protection back. Thoughts?
Since RAW in this case is a mess, I have already sent an email to the faq team to resolve this.
think the biggest boost command barge does is for Anrakyr, he is going to be much better, str 8 ap2 weapon, 2+ save, arrow, mitm he has about all you need.
but appart from that what i think what will be very good if people start spamming terminators will be Triarch Praetorians with a destroyer lord, preferred will boost ap2 shooting and attacks by a lot not even speaking about the lord his schackles and warscythe
You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things
And we shall do so again.
Wait... Flyers dot get jink? Oh dear that's dumb...Jink (most of the time)
??? Both have 3 HPDouble the hull point
Not that you'd ever really want to do that because of losing jink, but I guess it technically is an advantageCan stay still and pivot 180
But much, much better with skyfireTL tesla destructor average ~.9 hits per shot even when snapfiring against fliers. Just something to keep in mind. It's note entirely terrible.
I think what I like about Crons is that everything's now so good that there are no really poor builds (except maybe praetorians), everything in the army is worth trying out. I think I'm going to give Deathmarks a go soon, movable DSing snipers sounds like a very good idea to me.
I believe the no-skyfire Tesla destructor has (1/6+ 5/36)=0.305 chance to hit a flyer per shot. 4 shots equals ~1.2 "hits" which is a 6 that means 3 hits per shot against flyers.
Last edited by Infidel; 05-07-2012 at 01:35.
Yeah, when i realized that the dual FOC could net you 6 doom scythes i had a sinking feeling in my gut.
Overlord /w mss
4x 5 warriors w/ night scyth
6x doom scythes
Yup, we got a matt ward dex.
On a side note... What are peoples opinions on an old fashioned destroyer wing list? With preffered enemy their shooting gor really nasty. Regular dedtroyers wound most things on 3s, so as long as you dont roll 2s your golden. Not to mention what gauss does to vehicles now.
Lol, now i can actually field my 30 destroyers in a normal 40k game. Never thought that would happen.
After a few games with a lot of fliers floating around I can say necrons have no problem killing them, and many other armies kill ours just fine if they throw shots at them. Fliers are actually hard to get a lot of shots out of, especially if combat is in the middle of the board.