Necron Tactica - 6th Edition

[Starwolf]

Zahndrekh is very solid as a tank for duels. He's got a great invul save and armor save. However, I'm not sure he's so great anymore. Stealth is solid, so is tank hunters for rapid-fire warriors, furious charge is pretty much wasted on a wraith and D-Lord combo... Anyone use him or have thoughts? I'm debating swapping him for a regular overlord as a duel-killer.

[Alsiaie]

Zahndrekh is very solid as a tank for duels. He's got a great invul save and armor save. However, I'm not sure he's so great anymore. Stealth is solid, so is tank hunters for rapid-fire warriors, furious charge is pretty much wasted on a wraith and D-Lord combo... Anyone use him or have thoughts? I'm debating swapping him for a regular overlord as a duel-killer.

There is one exotic use for zahndrekh that requires obyron. You can put nemesor in a CCB and get him into close combat. Obyon will be forced to pile-in the same combat as the chariot, locking the unit, allowing challenges and making good use of counter-blow. This assumes that "counting" as being in base contact via the chariot rules also means nemesor is actually in CC and not just the barge.

[Infidel]

Zahndrekh is very solid as a tank for duels. He's got a great invul save and armor save. However, I'm not sure he's so great anymore. Stealth is solid, so is tank hunters for rapid-fire warriors, furious charge is pretty much wasted on a wraith and D-Lord combo... Anyone use him or have thoughts? I'm debating swapping him for a regular overlord as a duel-killer.

Night vision is good too. If NF is active for any reason during your shooting phase, it might be worth giving a key squad Nightvision.

You can also take it away from enemy's Ravager, so it's a decent ability.

[Alsiaie]

We have quite a few ork players in our area. Most of the lists are wagon spam crammed into the kustom force field bubble. Orks getting 2+ cover saves all around during NF is not fun. Nemesor at least softens that problem.

[Infidel]

We have quite a few ork players in our area. Most of the lists are wagon spam crammed into the kustom force field bubble. Orks getting 2+ cover saves all around during NF is not fun. Nemesor at least softens that problem.

I wouldn't worry about it. If you have Imhotekh then you can kite for a turn or 2 then end NF the moment you're within 24" or if you take solar pulses then you can just end NF for the turn if the mission causes it.

Zahndrekh is good, but I'm slowly leaning away from him since running dual-court is less necessary in my list and my HQ is most likely going to consist of Imhotekh + Destroyer Lord.

A question - a Destroyerlord challenges, the opponent accepts. Will the D. Lord count as T6 during the challenge or will he still be T4 since the unit is majority T4?

[elbacone]

A challenge is 1 vs 1, so T5 is the majority of that "combat" if I understand it right.

[Infidel]

A challenge is 1 vs 1, so T5 is the majority of that "combat" if I understand it right.

T6, that's what makes it awesome

No rulebook at hand, so if someone can please reply with a quote, that'd be very welcome.

[Alsiaie]

I wouldn't worry about it. If you have Imhotekh then you can kite for a turn or 2 then end NF the moment you're within 24" or if you take solar pulses then you can just end NF for the turn if the mission causes it.

Zahndrekh is good, but I'm slowly leaning away from him since running dual-court is less necessary in my list and my HQ is most likely going to consist of Imhotekh + Destroyer Lord.

A question - a Destroyerlord challenges, the opponent accepts. Will the D. Lord count as T6 during the challenge or will he still be T4 since the unit is majority T4?

The long, inconclusive RAW answer.
In a challenge, the models are treated to be in base contact with each other and no one else. Being in base contact or not does not remove the Dlord from being in the unit. It also says for wound allocation against the rest of the unit, pretend the characters ares simply not there. But this is for wound allocation purposes, not rolling to wound. Under Outside Forces, it simply reads the "models can only strike blows against one another". This does not directly mean to treat the character as his own unit. The last quote implies by RAI that you would roll dice as if you were attacking the model directly instead of the unit but by RAW majority toughness still applies because the character is still part of the unit. Multiple Toughness on page 25 states use the majority in the unit of the engaged foe. This doesn't help much as both the character and the unit are engaged and are still one unit. The other issue with the last quote is that in challenges, there is nothing that says the character stops benefiting from any global abilities the unit may grant. Items like whip coils however can never be used in a challenge as they are specific to base contact and have special targeting criteria. If you argue they are counted as separate units in challenges, then that character would lose any global abilities the unit would provide and vice versa. The exception to this (page 39) would be ongoing effects, which GW fails to clearly define. What is "ongoing"? I simply assume this would be an effect that would last until the end of phase or turn rather than a permanent effect or a radial bubble. On the slip side, if you have 1 Dlord and 1 wraith, both are treated as T6 in the combat via majority rules and applying the interpretation above.

The answer you should use to keep your friends.
Now that I have over complicated a RAW interpretation, the short answer is yes. Treat him as T6 by RAI in the respect blows are directly struck at the model and completely ignore the fact he still counts as being part of a unit. A single wraith would be T4 if joined with a Dlord of course.

[El_Machinae]

I'd certainly not argue against someone who wanted his specific D.Lord to be T6 in a challenge. The vibe is certainly on that side.

[Bonzai]

Zahndrehk is still good. He is the best support unit in the codex, not only giving a swiss army knife of abilities to your list, but taking them away from your opponent as well. His wargear selection is good, making him very survivable. Lastly, he synergizes incredibly well with flyers, as he can bring reserves in early.

Having D.Lords and CCB Lords has its merits, but Zahndrehk is ALWAYS a concideration in any list I make. He is just that versitile.

[Alsiaie]

I have a hard time not taking zahndrehk but 6th ed has opened up so many more HQ options now. I think nemesor would be a good alternative to taking stormtek units and a ghost ark. The reason I say this is if you're already going to plop down a 17-20 warrior squad on the table then giving them tank hunter is like using 5 warriors and a stormtek plus a single gauss array. It is a good comparison when looking at average hull point damage. Of course you can still buy the stormtek anyways. I've used a 20 blob with lightning field since I started playing crons. I have not regretted it in any game. Other than turn 1 (maybe 2) in 5th ed the unit was pretty much given counter-attack every turn. It's a nasty combo with a lightning field. Throw down an orb/mss lord to keep them running or keep a your lance-court ark behind them in lieu of the lord.

We all know that gauss has optimally replaced several unit choices in the codex including scarabs. However I still love the theory that a larger scarab squad can tarpit now due to the loss of No Retreat. I don't own any wraiths and probably won't for a while. I was thinking about pairing up a Dlord in a scarab unit. 2+ save with Look Out Sir shenanigans. They both move the same speed. The Dlord can allocate a Look Out Sir to any scarab within range on a 2+. There is no limit how many times a character can use LOS! in a turn. In theory you can place a wound on every scarab base before losing a model just like how paladin and nob bikers do. Though it is an overkill, the Dlord does give scarabs prefered enemy. Probably not needed against armor but in a tarpit situation, it can prove useful. Dlord locks up the character and the scarabs go to town. Perhaps consider giving the Dlord a res orb to as he will be in challenges most of the time. The whole concept is cheaper than a full wraith retinue and well scarabs are still scarabs. They just have a crap ton more survivability against shooting with a Dlord.

[GrottoKnight]

I like the scarabs. Tie up some jump infantry. D Lord wants to move forward faster though and scarabs won't deal enought to get to other combats faster. Not a bad combo though, but that can be said with all 12" move troops tied with a D Lord. Keeping him near scarabs is also useful thought but again should be in a unit ready to mop up and keep a mopping. mop mop mop all day long......

[barontuman]

I have a hard time not taking zahndrehk but 6th ed has opened up so many more HQ options now. I think nemesor would be a good alternative to taking stormtek units and a ghost ark. The reason I say this is if you're already going to plop down a 17-20 warrior squad on the table then giving them tank hunter is like using 5 warriors and a stormtek plus a single gauss array. It is a good comparison when looking at average hull point damage. Of course you can still buy the stormtek anyways. I've used a 20 blob with lightning field since I started playing crons. I have not regretted it in any game. Other than turn 1 (maybe 2) in 5th ed the unit was pretty much given counter-attack every turn. It's a nasty combo with a lightning field. Throw down an orb/mss lord to keep them running or keep a your lance-court ark behind them in lieu of the lord.

We all know that gauss has optimally replaced several unit choices in the codex including scarabs. However I still love the theory that a larger scarab squad can tarpit now due to the loss of No Retreat. I don't own any wraiths and probably won't for a while. I was thinking about pairing up a Dlord in a scarab unit. 2+ save with Look Out Sir shenanigans. They both move the same speed. The Dlord can allocate a Look Out Sir to any scarab within range on a 2+.

Look more closely at the wound allocation chart. With mixed armor saves, you look-out-sir then allocate the wound, then make the armor save. With same armor saves, you make the armor saves, allocate the wounds, then look-out-sir.

[Alsiaie]

Look more closely at the wound allocation chart. With mixed armor saves, you look-out-sir then allocate the wound, then make the armor save. With same armor saves, you make the armor saves, allocate the wounds, then look-out-sir.

I know that. This is why a Dlord works in a scarab unit. (Doesn't matter if the save is a 2+ or 3+) Mixed armor allocation requires you to allocate wounds (before saves) to the closest model. A single wound is allocated and then a save is made. You cannot allocate to the next closest model until the initial closest model is reduced to 0 wounds. If there's lets say 8 wounds, you allocate 1 wound to the lord. Do a LOS!. Allocate that wound to a single scarab base. Take a 5+ armor save. (If able) Take the next wound from the wound pool. It defaults to the Dlord. LOS! again but allocate it to a different scarab. Roll a 5+ save. Rinse and repeat. All you need is the Dlord to always be the closest model. Not too hard to do in a linear battle. At the end of the day, you can have a full unit of 10 scarabs all with 2 floating wounds before taking an actual casualty. That is survivability. The point is being able to have all 10 bases survive for their initial strike at whatever the target would be. You're getting your points worth in full. Once CC happens, you can pull the same trick but it is more situational.

[GrottoKnight]

Teaming with Grey Knights (possibly Black Templar instead) in 1k+1K team tourney. Beyond the Stormlord aiding the Grey Knights immensly any thoughts on what to bring?

I thought that 3 Scarab units would help to tie up units so he can focus his assault. Debating on the Stormlord since I only have 1k. The rules would mean the Stormlord would roll lightning on the GK too but for this tourny that is lifted. I thought about a C'tan withh WW and Orikan Snares combo but this is like 350pts and only messes the enemy up for the first turn and maybe 10-20 dead models depending on the opponent. This with the Stormlord would be really crazy but the GK would have to kill and get all the objectives.

I also thougt about just laying down a ton of firepower.

Anyone else have tactical synergy ideas with my team?

[Alsiaie]

I know this has been debated like a dead horse but lightning storm shouldn't hit the GKs anyways. It is an ability that has a Strength and AP value that is used in the shooting phase. It's basically a long-hand written weapon/shooting attack that is not an area of effect. Allies can not be shot at. Targeting and being shot at are two separate things as well. Since it's done in the shooting phase, affects each unit individually (not AoE) and wounds are allocated as shooting (using random allocation as you cannot determine closest model), allied units would count as being shot at. Stay away from WW and Orikan now. Dangerous terrain no longer ignores armor and won't help you much. Orikan himself outside turn 1 is pretty close to useless. You're paying 350 points for a 1 turn combo that *might* kill a few models. Buy 350 points worth of infantry that will indefinitely kill more models. A C'tan isn't always a bad choice @1000 points if you take gaze and a 10 point upgrade. But you're already taking GKs so you're going to need the points for more infantry. Superior fire power by quantity is one of the best approaches in 6th ed at the moment with necrons.

[Malkuth]

Funny thing happened in my latest game: I almost wrecked my own doomscythe with a tesla destructor arc (lost 2 hull points)... S5 is harmless against AV13 but not so much against AV11. Something to be carefull about, unless I'm reading it wrong and there is something that prevents flyers from being affected by stuff like that.

[Alsiaie]

Funny thing happened in my latest game: I almost wrecked my own doomscythe with a tesla destructor arc (lost 2 hull points)... S5 is harmless against AV13 but not so much against AV11. Something to be carefull about, unless I'm reading it wrong and there is something that prevents flyers from being affected by stuff like that.

Not sure if this is legal. 100% debatable though. The Arc ability on a tesla destructor shouldn't be able to hit a flyer. It's a shooting attack separate form the actual destructor profile that hits models without a BS value. It's still resolved as shooting (wounding, saves, allocation, cover, LoS etc). Hits on flyers can only be resolved by Snap Shots and shooting attacks that don't require BS or a to-hit roll cannot be resolved against them. Some debate that attacks like arcing or squig bombs are not actual shooting attacks even though they follow some but not all rules in the shooting section of the BRB.

[Sekhmet]

Not sure if this is legal. 100% debatable though. The Arc ability on a tesla destructor shouldn't be able to hit a flyer. It's a shooting attack separate form the actual destructor profile that hits models without a BS value. It's still resolved as shooting (wounding, saves, allocation, cover, LoS etc). Hits on flyers can only be resolved by Snap Shots and shooting attacks that don't require BS or a to-hit roll cannot be resolved against them. Some debate that attacks like arcing or squig bombs are not actual shooting attacks even though they follow some but not all rules in the shooting section of the BRB.

Unless the tesla destructor came from something with skyfire, like say, a night scythe or a doom scythe shooting in air-to-air mode.

I know this has been debated like a dead horse but lightning storm shouldn't hit the GKs anyways. It is an ability that has a Strength and AP value that is used in the shooting phase. It's basically a long-hand written weapon/shooting attack that is not an area of effect. Allies can not be shot at. Targeting and being shot at are two separate things as well. Since it's done in the shooting phase, affects each unit individually (not AoE) and wounds are allocated as shooting (using random allocation as you cannot determine closest model), allied units would count as being shot at. Stay away from WW and Orikan now. Dangerous terrain no longer ignores armor and won't help you much. Orikan himself outside turn 1 is pretty close to useless. You're paying 350 points for a 1 turn combo that *might* kill a few models. Buy 350 points worth of infantry that will indefinitely kill more models. A C'tan isn't always a bad choice @1000 points if you take gaze and a 10 point upgrade. But you're already taking GKs so you're going to need the points for more infantry. Superior fire power by quantity is one of the best approaches in 6th ed at the moment with necrons.

Lightning isn't a shooting attack; it doesn't prevent Imotekh from using his gauntlet of fire or staff of the destroyer. Infantry can only shoot one weapon a shooting phase, so that's pretty good evidence that lightning is a non-shooting attack, it's more like a passive ability. Psychic witchfire powers are specifically noted as counting as assault weapons in the shooting phase, lightning has no such entry in neither the codex nor the FAQ.

[Alsiaie]

Unless the tesla destructor came from something with skyfire, like say, a night scythe or a doom scythe shooting in air-to-air mode.

That is correct. In a case of a doom/nightscythe it can happen. A few things need trigger first. When shooting, a flyer needs to declare it is firing in skyfire mode that phase. The second is that LoS/facing for the arc is still determined from the destructor's barrel as well (per faq). With a 45 degree arc, you pretty much need a flyer in front of another to see it. I stand by that even though you measure 6" from the unit you fired at to determine arcing range, the arc still can only target units/models the gun can see as it is still a shooting attack. I am not sure if the tesla's barrel can see itself for targeting purposes as I don't own a necron flyer.