Necron Tactica - 6th Edition

[CrownAxe]

The problem with the C'tan is that its slow and a huge target to get shot at while being a giant points investment.

[IcedAnimals]

On the note of destroying a vehicle or not to prevent its occupants from assaulting. Gw saws the issue. This is the exact reason why it says "their subsequent assault phase". A wrecked vehicle causes disembark which prevents assault in the controlling players next assault. It doesn't matter if that next assault is 1 or 4 phases away.

Bringing fliers from reserve seems to work and is a great trick for ctan to pull. Makes an "ok" unit that has to cOmpete for slots a more viable choice. Oh and I love the monolith. I take two now. Av14 with a 5+ save is great especially if you can give it stealth and then start pooring in troops from its portal

[CGBSpender]

I can imagine disembarking 20 warriors is much easier now since it's 6" now. I believe you can also disembark C'tans, as it says any non-vehicle unit can come out of the portal, so that solves our problem of slow moving C'tans, sort of. Monolith is limiting to 6" a turn. Not sure if it's viable for "transporting" assault units.

[CrownAxe]

I believe you can also disembark C'tans, as it says any non-vehicle unit can come out of the portal, so that solves our problem of slow moving C'tans, sort of. Monolith is limiting to 6" a turn. Not sure if it's viable for "transporting" assault units.

Its not that great. The monolith moves slower then the C'tan (since they can run) so its only an advantage if you Deep Strike the monolith but you can't assault out of it and still have to wait for it to show up on the table.

[Alsiaie]

Its not that great. The monolith moves slower then the C'tan (since they can run) so its only an advantage if you Deep Strike the monolith but you can't assault out of it and still have to wait for it to show up on the table.

There's little reason to buy a monolith just for the purpose of the portal. Deathmarks, lychguard and tomb spyders are probably your best candidates. Two of the three already have a transport or teleport option though. Speaking of spyders...I was thinking about using some as a dedicated CC unit. I double checked the IC and MC rules and there's nothing saying an IC can't join a MC unit. The IC rules mention they can't join single model units but nothing about units containing multiple MCs. Obyron in theory could join a Spyder squad and veil them accross the table on turn 1. Throw in a gloom prism and if you're adventurous a particle caster or two. I know they're slow but you're still looking at typical stats of a tough MC. Use obyron to take out any characters that might threaten them in combat. There's less attacks but it almost feels like launching 3 mini screamer-killers in your opponent's face. Can someone else confirm this?

[CrownAxe]

I wasn't saying the monolith was bad, I was saying the monolith isn't a viable means to deliver the C'tan to battle.

[USER1]

Reading it THAT carefully reminds me of baal predators using smoke while scouting in 5th edition, then when they have first turn, they can move and shoot and have smoke up at the same time.

WTF??!! I just pointed out a very important part of the rules you have missed. Nothing is being bent here, the way I have described it is the way it is, should be and was (almost certainly) intended. Any other way of playing creates the completley ridiculous situation in which it is better to have your transport destroyed so that you can assault.

[Infidel]

Back. Was out in the middle of nowhere for a week.

Been thinking about the C'tan. I wrote a whole chunk on it a few pages back. The primary criticism is that they're slow, they get shot at and that they don't actually kill a while lot of stuff now the breaking away from combat is much less unforgiving.

• C'tans are the only thing that doesn't have I2 in the Cron codex, which means sweeping advance has a higher odd of happening
• Gaze of Death can kill 1/3 of the MEQ under the template. Given how tightly packed the models are, you can probably reliably kill 3 MEQs (combined with the CC attack you can kill 5 MEQ a turn - on par with a pack of 6 Wraiths) with it and gaining a wound back in the process
• Challenge helps the C'tan survive CC
• As long as you have OTHER things that requires attention from multi-shot high strength high AP (loota, scatterlaser, autocannon etc), having the C'tan being a giant fire magnet is not necessarily a bad thing - hence the note on its synergy with Fliers
• A C'tan does not lose effectiveness until the last wound is removed
• A C'tan can't be ID'd

Of course, the Dark Eldar and their splinter weapons are still bad news for C'tans, but Wraiths don't necessarily like being showered with Splinter weapons either....

[Zinch]

I double checked the IC and MC rules and there's nothing saying an IC can't join a MC unit. The IC rules mention they can't join single model units but nothing about units containing multiple MCs. Obyron in theory could join a Spyder squad and veil them accross the table on turn 1. Throw in a gloom prism and if you're adventurous a particle caster or two. I know they're slow but you're still looking at typical stats of a tough MC. Use obyron to take out any characters that might threaten them in combat. There's less attacks but it almost feels like launching 3 mini screamer-killers in your opponent's face. Can someone else confirm this?

Yeah, this is completely legal (and already was in 5th, the rule of joining IC and MC units is exactly the same).

[Bonzai]

Anyone find any use for Triarch Pretorians? I was hoping that with 6th edition, the light would go on and I would suddenly understand what they were good for. Unfortunately, I still don't.

[Gorsameth]

Anyone find any use for Triarch Pretorians? I was hoping that with 6th edition, the light would go on and I would suddenly understand what they were good for. Unfortunately, I still don't.

Well they have ap2 cc weapons, there jump infantry so they can get around fast into combat.
And then you realize your 40 points and only have a 3+ save and I2.

No there still ****.

[Alsiaie]

Anyone find any use for Triarch Pretorians? I was hoping that with 6th edition, the light would go on and I would suddenly understand what they were good for. Unfortunately, I still don't.

One of those looks awesome on paper units until you put them on the table. They have so much potential, but not for 40 points. Too bad since I have a box still sealed I bought on release. I like lychguard but they don't fit my play style. I am also waiting for lychguard to get FAQed. The digital codex lists hyperphase swords at AP 3 and I expect them to not be power axes soon. I'll probably end up using the box to convert more crypteks like the first one I got...

C'tans are still going to be viable. They're just not the synergy engine like in 5th. Making them dedicated CC units might justify their point value. Gaze is pretty much a given but the second power still has a few viable options. Entropic Touch is an easy choice due to the cost. It's not really that useful against infantry or even characters. He already is AP 2 and should be killing what it touches. MCs are so-so against tanks now since they lost the 2d6 armor pen. Of course assaulting a vehicle with a c'tan leaves him unlocked and open to retaliation fire. (Except walkers). Lord of fire is still useful. It's another cheap option that is situational. Swarm of Spirit Dust still has a place. Defensive grenades are pretty good. The stealth still comes in handy. A C'tan does not even have to be inside terrain to benefit from its cover. I was going through the cover rules and read that a model/unit that is obscured by terrain receives the cover the terrain would normally give. Even if the model is not in it. Normally it did not matter in 5th since everything was a 4+. But if a C'tan is hiding behind 4+ area terrain and is 25% obscured, he still gets the 3+ cover save. The dumb thing is he could be hiding behind a ghost ark and only receive 5+ base cover.

[Calmdown]

I think you guys underestimate C'tan a bit.

Sure, they're weak in the 'total attacks' department that a unit of 6~ Wraiths for the same points would have, but they do have some advantages:

Ability to challenge (major!)
AP2 without 6s to hit
Dont fall over to missile launcher failed saves
Explodes on death

Sure you can run 6~ wraiths for the same points, but they both have advantages and disadvantages. The ability to challenge is huge. Gaze of Death (if we're comparing CC abilities) is huge (especially combined with challenges). Assault weapon Lascannons that hit on 2s are fantastic (Lascannons being many more times better in this edition, not that people are quite understanding that yet). WW is far from a bad power; footslogging is now genuinely competitive, swarm armies are much more competitive (think Orks), and basic troop shooting is much stronger due to rapid fire changes. They want cover saves? They can take some Wd. They want to avoid the Wd? They can take Flayer spam. Lord of Fire is still good. Mech is far, far from dead; its just different and no longer the choice du jour, but you will see it a lot still.

And there's not really any reason to be afraid of Krak Grenades. So a unit of 10 marines hits you with 10 of them? They average less than 1 Wd (5 hits = 1.6 Wd = 0.8 Wd post save)


They're by no means OP units, but they're still fabulous, dont let our abundance of good units fool you into ignoring another good one because it isn't quite so obviously strong. Tyranids would kill for an MC that does what C'tan does.

[Alsiaie]

I think you guys underestimate C'tan a bit.

Sure, they're weak in the 'total attacks' department that a unit of 6~ Wraiths for the same points would have, but they do have some advantages:

Ability to challenge (major!)
AP2 without 6s to hit
Dont fall over to missile launcher failed saves
Explodes on death

Sure you can run 6~ wraiths for the same points, but they both have advantages and disadvantages. The ability to challenge is huge. Gaze of Death (if we're comparing CC abilities) is huge (especially combined with challenges). Assault weapon Lascannons that hit on 2s are fantastic (Lascannons being many more times better in this edition, not that people are quite understanding that yet). WW is far from a bad power; footslogging is now genuinely competitive, swarm armies are much more competitive (think Orks), and basic troop shooting is much stronger due to rapid fire changes. They want cover saves? They can take some Wd. They want to avoid the Wd? They can take Flayer spam. Lord of Fire is still good. Mech is far, far from dead; its just different and no longer the choice du jour, but you will see it a lot still.

And there's not really any reason to be afraid of Krak Grenades. So a unit of 10 marines hits you with 10 of them? They average less than 1 Wd (5 hits = 1.6 Wd = 0.8 Wd post save)


They're by no means OP units, but they're still fabulous, dont let our abundance of good units fool you into ignoring another good one because it isn't quite so obviously strong. Tyranids would kill for an MC that does what C'tan does.

C'tans can still fall over to missile fire. Any weapon that wounds on 2+ or 3+ that can fire en-mass will be problematic. It's the most effective way to take down MC. 4+ save isn't superb and units like long fangs have potential to make quick work of a C'tan. Yes, the C'tan doesn't degrade as it loses wounds, but you're going to want more than one wound when reaching combat.

Instant death aside, 6 wraiths have 12 wounds with a 3+ inv save. Collectively they live can live longer, are faster and have more attacks in general. Even if you include ID as a factor, 4 failed 3+ saves would be like losing 4 wounds on a C'tan. But you still have wraiths left. The C'tan dies. Ranged poison weapons can quickly destroy a C'tan. Wraiths, not as fast.

WW is still useful but no longer first choice in my book. Now that DT allows armor, meh. Dozer blades work at all speeds now too. For 5 points, I expect them to be widely used. Slow and Purposesful units no longer take DT in open ground. WW worked wonders against units like those. No more.

Thunderbolt is good on paper. An assault lascannon. Lascannons are good for anti-tank. But you're buying a 200+ point lascannon in an army with gauss spam. You're also not running the c'tan if you're shooting. He should be in close combat to make most use of him. Running is going to get him there before it dies.

This is simply a list of reasons why C'tans are not optimal. Doesn't mean they suck. I actually don't use wraiths in any of my lists either. They work as a good comparison but that doesn't make wraiths a must have for an army either. I mostly play 1850 point games. I think C'tan have a dual bell curve in effectiveness. At 1250-1500 they can be pretty good since there's less heavy weapons on the table. Make 'em cheap and run it down the table. At 1850, expect them to get shot of the board quickly. In bigger games it becomes useful again. Sure there's more anti-tank but at lets say 2500 points there's so much potential target saturation. You can afford to buy a C'tan and still have a plethora of higher priority targets. His global abilities then really start to shine.

[Infidel]

This is simply a list of reasons why C'tans are not optimal. Doesn't mean they suck.

That's basically what it comes down to. Ive been finding arguments FOR C'tans, and that list is what I came up with.

In any scenario that you'd throw a CC C'tan into the mix, about 80% of them Wraiths would do better. The only one true advantage of the C'tan comes from the fact that it can basically go through an unlimited amount of MEQ troop squads, using challenges and gaze to reduce/maximise damage. Against GKs for example. Force weapon still worries a squad of Wraiths somewhat, especially if the squad has a IC attached; whereas a C'tan can wade into the battle with little to fear.

I still think for their cost, in order to be a competitive option, they need to be S or T 8 , or both for a slight point increase.

[Alsiaie]

I'm ok with S7 and T7. T8 would be way too much. S8 means he's instant popping in most challenges. Might be a bit much too without a price hike. 5 wounds or a 3+ inv save? Yes please.

[Sekhmet]

That's basically what it comes down to. Ive been finding arguments FOR C'tans, and that list is what I came up with.

In any scenario that you'd throw a CC C'tan into the mix, about 80% of them Wraiths would do better. The only one true advantage of the C'tan comes from the fact that it can basically go through an unlimited amount of MEQ troop squads, using challenges and gaze to reduce/maximise damage. Against GKs for example. Force weapon still worries a squad of Wraiths somewhat, especially if the squad has a IC attached; whereas a C'tan can wade into the battle with little to fear.

I still think for their cost, in order to be a competitive option, they need to be S or T 8 , or both for a slight point increase.

If they were T8 I'd still play one. A squad of GK can be deadly to a C'tan if it has any sort of IC support; the entire squad getting S6 more more doesn't make C'tan happy, especially when they're striking at I4 or I6.

[IcedAnimals]

But the entire squad isn't hitting the ctan. You issue a challenge to prevent the entire squad from being able to swing on you.

[Sekhmet]

But the entire squad isn't hitting the ctan. You issue a challenge to prevent the entire squad from being able to swing on you.

Smart player declines the challenge and allows one character to sit out of the combat so the rest of the squad can beat down the C'tan. Challenges are only mandatory if you're on the receiving end of a challenge in which you only have one model in combat on your side and that one model is a character.

[Mchagen]

Smart player declines the challenge and allows one character to sit out of the combat so the rest of the squad can beat down the C'tan. Challenges are only mandatory if you're on the receiving end of a challenge in which you only have one model in combat on your side and that one model is a character.

A refused challenge only results in a character sitting out for one player turn, not the combat. Only one challenge can be issued per combat. Challenging to 'protect' models or to remove opposing characters from the cc is highly over-rated.