Tactica Imperial Guard - 6th Ed

[Lord Cook]

10 Storms (150 pts)(.0297 wpp)
20 shots, 13.3 hits, 4.45 wounds or so

10 Storms with 2 plas (180 pts) (.0346 wpp)
18,12,4 wounds
4, 8/3 hits, 20/9 wounds (2.22 wounds)

Vets with 3xPlas (115) (.0318 wpp)
14,28/3,28/9, 28/27 wounds (about 1)
6,4,8/3 wounds (2.66)

So with no cover Storms win out handily against vets.

Ten Storm Troopers - Agreed. About 4.5.
Ten Storm Troopers w/ two plasma guns - Would be more. About 5.8. Easily the most powerful option, but also costs 195 points.
Ten Veterans w/ three plasma guns - Would also be more. About 4.3.

The plasma Veterans are almost as good as the basic Storm Troopers even without enemy cover. If the target Marines do have cover, the Veterans would actually be better than the Storm Troopers. The Veterans are also significantly better against monstrous creatures, and enormously better against vehicles.

If the Storm Troopers buy plasma guns, then they easily edge the Veterans out (except against vehicles), however they also leap from costing 50 points more to 80 points more. While the Storm Troopers do have better armour and delivery options, they also do not score.

It's also worth noting that Veteran squads with demolitions are a powerful counter to high-toughness monstrous creatures because whiele they will lose a few models to the enemy attacks, the remainder will all hit back with a S8 Ap1 meltabomb that probably only require a 4+ to hit. A Veterans squad with three meltaguns and demolitions cost 130 points and make fearsome big-game hunters as well as being a strong anti-tank unit. Plus they have a demo charge.

Also, by memory I believe ten Storm Troopers are 165 points basic.


EDIT: I think the one potential Storm Troopers have is in attrition. Looking at this kind of comparison, I would make best use of range and attempt to keep up a steady fire from the hot-shot lasguns over the course of several turns - a situation in which overheats would swiftly (and massively) degrade the Veteran's effectiveness. However, Storm Troopers struggle to operate from Chimeras because they can only use 50% of their firepower from the fire points, wheras the Veterans can use almost all of their firepower because it's focused on a few models. Normal casualties (e.g. from the schmucks you leave out in front) also degrade the Storm Troopers far more because each model is worth an equal amount.

Sadly, if you're going for a long-term attrition strategy to wear enemy units down, the answer is neither Veterans nor Storm Troopers. It's platoons with ranked fire and a ton of independently-firing Chimeras.

RETRO-EDIT: I guess to me the only realistic use of Storm Troopers in a non-suicide deep strike role is as a support unit for Al'Rahem's platoon. By definition Al'Rahem cannot bring along Veterans, and while his own platoon Command Section is a decent unit, it's also expensive and contains the only nearby officer (and one for whom we presumably pay quite a lot of points for all those better-than-usual orders). In this case a large squad of Storm Troopers outflanking at the same time, with an Astropath for good all-round reliability of reserves, might actually fill a worthwhile niche. If you then combined that Storm Trooper squad with 'Like the Wind' you could rapid fire enemies and then run back out of (probable) charge range. Would this all be good? No, but it's the only way I'm ever going to use a full 10-man squad and that's a sad thing for someone with more Storm Troopers models than the bloody Deathstar.

[Russell's teapot]

It's not really about points back when you're looking at anything that cost more than 155 points in an IG list (or anything really, but especially on this case). It's about the opportunity cost of what you could have bought for the same price or less.

That veterans are scoring means that they automatically trump stormtroopers except for the melta strike suicide squad.

[GlenMorray]

Just so you all know I won my game Vs Nids, I basically stood back and rolled dice, a bit boring but I won!

I did use a punisher instead of a battlecannon...VERY nice vs Nids

[Capt._Jaelinek]

I've been using a static CCS with snipers and a MoO. I really am not impressed with the snipers and am thinking of a heavy weapon instead. A lascannon, autocannon, or missile launcher seems like the best option, but I know some of you really like the mortar. Could someone explain why they like the mortar?

[Fortier]

I've been thinking of adding a primaris psyker to my army, but have some questions, as I have never used a psyker before. What is the best way to use a psyker in a guard army? Which powers are best?

[FraustyTheSnowman]

I like mortars, but I don't think I'd ever use one in a ccs. Even with the "kill the warlord" secondary objective I think hiding a unit that can have four bs4 special weapons is a waste. Plus, as has been mentioned before, most orders require line of sight from the officer.

As for the psyker, personally I think the best psyker for a guard army is the psyker battle squad or a rune priest ally. If memory serves ColShaw uses a primaris, so he might have something more uplifting to add...but having used them a few times I've not been impressed. Haven't used them with the new book disciplines though.

[Capt._Jaelinek]

Unfortunately my most regular player uses an Eldar army. With Runes of Warding/Witnessing IG psykers, of any kind, are a waste of points.

I've used the BRB and the Codex powers a few times to try them out. Of the IG Codex powers the Lightning is good, and can be great with a lucky roll. Never has the mind shroud power work. Using the BRB powers is a huge crap shoot, the few times I've used them I got a Warp Charge 2 power or other powers that required an up-close and personal touch that I didn't have a unit to put him in. Another great idea for a model with poor execution (puts primaris psyker in toy box next to ogryns, storm troopers, techpriests, penal legion, sentinels, ...)

[MyNameDidntFit]

I've been thinking of adding a primaris psyker to my army, but have some questions, as I have never used a psyker before. What is the best way to use a psyker in a guard army? Which powers are best?

The Codex powers. Lightning Arc is brutal. Even more so with the new glancing rules. I occasionally run my Psyker instead of a second CCS, and he usually does pretty well and is always fun.

[ColShaw]

The Codex powers. Lightning Arc is brutal. Even more so with the new glancing rules. I occasionally run my Psyker instead of a second CCS, and he usually does pretty well and is always fun.

I agree that, if you use a Primaris, the Lightning Arc is probably at least as good as anything else he can throw down. However, as noted above, Eldar can render the Primaris basically useless. In most armies, a CCS is probably more useful; I primarily (see what I did there?) use mine for fluff/thematic reasons. He's not terrible, but there are certainly better HQ options out there.

[Ape]

Did anyone use flanking stormtroopers in a chimera so far?

I tried 7 StormTroopers w/ 2 Plasma in a Chimera, which is ~200Points and added a Primaris to them. So far they did a good job flanking behind enemy lines and clearing all objectives of my enemy. (especially if you face a rushing space marine with just 2x5 marines or scouts in their deployment zone for capturing)

dunno if its really worth the points, but they can dash out alot of damage beside being mobile and having a decent chimera protection.

[The Audrey II]

I've gone through the first 13 pages so far and am slowly working through the rest but had to ask my question even though it might be in e other 30 pages. Has any one ran a lord commissar with camo cloak joined up with a 30 man squad behind an aegis defense line? He can run the quad gun with his bs5and he gives the squad stealth meaning they all have a 3+ cover save behind the aegis line. I run a marine bike list but plan on trying this out for my allies. The point is to have the squad camp my back line objective instead of snipers

[FraustyTheSnowman]

He doesn't give the unit stealth anymore. I think it's in the guard faq.

[HoldTheLine]

Mortars and the MoO have been doing great for me (maybe I'm just lucky on the scatter for these units), they've made more then their points back in all my games, some times even up to triple their cost, but my PCS and Sentinels have repeatedly failed me.

Here's the List:

HQ

CCS: LC, MoO, Banner - 115pts

Troops

Veteran Squad: 2xMelta, Chimera (HF, ML) - 145pts

Veteran Squad: 2xPG, Chimera (HB, ML) - 155pts

Infantry Platoon: 285pts
PCS: 3xFlamers - 45pts
IS: AC - 60pts
IS: AC - 60pts
IS: AC - 60pts
HWS: 3xMortar - 60pts

Fast Attack

Armored Sentinel: PC - 75pts

Armored Sentinel: PC - 75pts

Heavy Support

LRBT: HB - 150pts

Total 1000pts

I'm thinking of changing the sents to LCs or missiles, or to even run them as scouts, which will leave me with 80 spare points.
Second, I don't know what to do with the PCS. Should i use GLs instead or just hide them in reserves or far back (behind the Russ)?

I don't have any more plasma or melta and only have 4GL and 1 Flamer model left everything else is on the board
already, but the Russ and sentinel kits are magnetized and can change to any weapon loadout (and to scouts as well for the Sentinels).

Suggestions?

[Capt._Jaelinek]

He doesn't give the unit stealth anymore. I think it's in the guard faq.

Yep, cloaks are just +1 cover to the model wearing it.

[z4carlo]

I've been using a static CCS with snipers and a MoO. I really am not impressed with the snipers and am thinking of a heavy weapon instead. A lascannon, autocannon, or missile launcher seems like the best option, but I know some of you really like the mortar. Could someone explain why they like the mortar?

For me its pure and simple to keep the unit very cheap, for 60 points I take a CCS with sniper and Mortar. The sniper and mortar will do very little but may once in a while kill a sarg/special weopon or cause pinning. But the real reason is to reduce the price and profile of a unit which otherwise is an obvious easy target for so many reasons (low model count, slay the warlord, removal of orders) if you add more expensive and more threatening weopons to the squad they will allways be your opponents first port of call imo.
I do however nearly allways run 2 CCS and the other is nearly allways more agressively armed (but the cheap one is allways the warlord).

[Capt._Jaelinek]

Add GLs to the vets if you don't have any more meltas or PG. it's worth it IMO.

Not a fan of PC sentinels since they have no protection from gets hot. An autocannon or ML is probably better for general duty. Missile launcher is versatile but only 1 shot. Lascannon is a tank hunter, which your list appears to lack.

[The_Klobb_Maniac]

@Lord
The math should've been pretty on; though I was rounding a bit and doing the fractions in my head :P

It depends on how competitive you want to be probably. To me; most people argue you'd take the Chim with the Vets, bringing the Storms and Vets to equal cost. The Chim probably evens things out firepower wise but I'd argue is less reliable than a big set of Storms. I'm an infantry-heavy player so while Storms eat up too many points to take all the time; the fact is they can get places that even armies with Chims have a hard time getting. Add to that the reliability of deepstrike; that you get to alphastrike whatever is causing you problems, and that it basically doesn't matter what army you're fighting; it seems like a fair choice. Again if we're talking uber-mega tourny levels; nah probably not. If we're talking semi-competitive usage for eliminating problem units, scoring units, etc.. they seem quite reasonable.

Remember that you can just Derp them right behind a scoring unit and blow them off the objective if you need to. I see them as an anti-troops unit if anything. (I did the reverse of this yesterday; DSd behind a unit trying to cap my objective and got rid of them.)


With all that said I only brought them up because S3 is a sweet spot for T6. You don't pay for needless extra strength, you don't pay for extra AP (in the case of lasguns) you don't have any waste. Storms bring that in with an optimal AP level and the option for Plas, making them a decent option for downing TMCs, which is what someone was saying they were terrible at. They are certainly worse than, say, a CCS with 4xPlas BiDing the thing; but what isn't?

[The Audrey II]

Thanks. I used it as stealth today without even checking the FAQ. Just got smashed with barrage weapons and did not make any 6+ saves anywho. Good to know for future though.

[Blinder]

I've been using a static CCS with snipers and a MoO. I really am not impressed with the snipers and am thinking of a heavy weapon instead. A lascannon, autocannon, or missile launcher seems like the best option, but I know some of you really like the mortar. Could someone explain why they like the mortar?

If I put a mortar in my CCS it's generally less to hide the warlord point and more to hide the orders/banner (officer pokes his nose out just enough to see whatever I want to have shot up, the rest stay hidden behind some kind of wall/tank). Generally though I actually like an ML in my hang-back CCS, especially if my officer/standard-bearer is manning the quad-gun- gives me a good punch against armor and a nice blast against any infantry that drops in to say 'hello.' An autocannon would likely serve about as well but with the extra point of BS making the hit more reliable I like having the krak shot available for the occasional T4 multi-wound not-eternal-warrior model.

[ColShaw]

I use a MoO, Regimental Standard, and Missile Launcher in my static CCS. The Standard is awfully handy for keeping my HWSs from scarpering off, and the MoO is just too entertaining not to use. Though, I swear, the Missile Launcher may be the only BS4 launcher in my army, but dang if that guy doesn't miss 80% of his shots. He's gotta be the unluckiest model in my whole army.