Ah yes didnt see that in the weapon summary, although hopefully that comma after Blast on its profile is a typo and not them forgetting to add said rule to the end.Originally Posted by Asymmetric
Ah yes didnt see that in the weapon summary, although hopefully that comma after Blast on its profile is a typo and not them forgetting to add said rule to the end.
alright seriously guys someone help me out here regarding deep striking flyers. Someone with a book. I can't find it in my book at all.
Fliers come in from reserve normally.
However, the codex entry of several fliers, like Guard and Necron fliers have the deep strike special rule.
So they can come into play via deep strike if you want.
So with the hydra now pretty poor at killing off anything that doesn't have wings and an engine will we see more exterminators? I really like the idea of Pask in an exterminator with 3 heavy bolters and a heavy stubber! Try charging that.
ColShaw...very glad to see you step up to the plate, you the (lego)man!
Once I get a chance to really look at the book I'd like to throw a couple articles up here, mostly about psyker powers and potentially chaos allies. Might be a little bit though (week or so at the max), as a lot of other obligations trump reading time...
Didn't see it discussed here, but it's being talked about in the dark eldar tactica...missile launchers and skyfire. I am of the mind that our (actually all) missile launchers do not have skyfire, based on the rule book saying something along the lines of "all missile launchers have frag and krak as standard and some have the option to upgrade to flakk", and then none of the army faqs (least as far as I know right this minute) have given their respective army the ability to upgrade to flakk. Thoughts?
Non-walker vehicles can't Overwatch
This seems crazy. So some can and some can't? What was the point of standardizing a flyer type if they are not. I am just going to go ahead and say it now, necrons are going to be the best army of this edition and the doom scythe will be the most spammed unit if it really can deep strike. It is unbelievably over powered.
Wow that sucks.
Still that many shots will make a mess in the shooting phase.
*shrugs*
Such is life. Necrons are good.
Interceptor weapons get a free shot against units that arrive from reserve (which I assume includes deepstrike) within range and line of sight at the end of the enemy's movement turn. So a quad will blow the wet tissue armour of any necron flier that deepstrikes within 48" of it.
Go check out the rules for indirect barrage weapons. Can you spell S-N-I-P-I-N-G?
Personally, the flyer rules do not say they allow flyers to deepstrike. I think the rulebook overrules the codex in this particular case as there were no such things as flyers in last edition. I don't think any flyer should be allowed to deepstrike.
If they weren't allowed to deepstrike, the FAQ would have removed it along with the placeholder flyer rules.
Frankly it's academic.
FAQ didn't change anything so the codex rules stand.
Ah just found clarification. So yes everything can deepstrike.
Last edited by Commissar Merces; 30-06-2012 at 23:59.
The exterminator with Pask will probably see more action. He's out best anti-mech heavy support choice now, along with manticores and medusa's. He's pretty good at ramping up hull point damage. He's not, as they are fond of saying in pokemon, super effective against fliers so you probably want to back him up with someone else in your list to deal with those, hes just alright against them. I used to think running him with a lascannon hull was better than pure heavy bolter but now that you can glance things to death pure heavy bolter is probably fine.
- The bastion breacher medusa and the manticore are crazy effective now though at dealing with tanks, given blasts hit at full strength all the time. Squadroned medusa's could be pretty amusing. Strength 10 might also be more important now that things like Nobz bikers and plague marines need strength 10 to instant death and break FNP.
- Devil dogs are also much better for similar reasons on blasts. Devil dogs also got better because fast vehicles can fire 2 weapons at 12". Which means no more need to split hellhounds/devildogs hull/turret weapons. Devildog can move 12" and fire both the main gun and a hull multimelta. likewise a hellhound can fire the main gun and a heavy flamer hull after moving 12".
- The vendetta is, as ever, a very strong choice for anti-tank.
Agreed.
Last edited by Asymmetric; 01-07-2012 at 00:03.
It will also be nice for breaking bastions and other fortifications.
18th Company (Assault) 298th Cadian Shock - A Project Log updated June 3rd 2012
It's worth pointing out that a bastion + quad gun costs 125 points. A chimera + hydra 130 points.
So all those Chimera lists out there ... one of the simplest ways to adapt to 6th might be to drop a chimera+hydra and just camp a squad/vet inside a bastion bunker which has AV14, several fire points for your heavy/special weapons and a superior hydra on top of it and then in turn 5+ you can have your unit run upstairs to the battlements, where you will have placed the objective marker and you'll be scoring with a large cover save.
*****
Something else that is a little odd.
The vulcan mega bolter (strength 6, AP3 heavy 15) and the Macro-cannon (strength 7, AP4 large blast 2) are listed in the ranged weapons section. I wonder if thats a foreshadowing to seeing minor superheavies in standard play.
If we have super heavies, they have to redo the hull points on them. No freaking way a battle wagon has more than a baneblade.
I am also a little miffed about the terrain. It seems a bit silly to be able to buy a bastion especially if it is not a board that looks the part. A bastion could stick out like a sore thumb. Personally, I won't be taking one ever. The defenseline, however, different case entirely
Vehicles cannot contest objectives. That's our single greatest setback in this edition.
In terms of changes to the army:
HQ
There's a lot more competition in the HQ section now. Company Commanders are still good, and are likely to remain a staple choice. But Primaris Psykers are now very viable, and even Enginseers may see a small renaissance (particularly joined with Leman Russ). Of the remaining viable choices, Stracken got a little weaker in terms of his area buffs.
EDIT: It looks as though independent characters can't be picked out in combat, except via challenges which you can use weaker sergeants to accept. Powerfist Lord Commissars and Eviscerator Priests are looking more attractive. This may (and I say may!) make Ogryns better, as they can have the Lord Commissar buff their leadership while using the Bone'ead to accept challenges. You've still got the issue of sniping, barrages, combat wound allocation, etc. And I said 'better', not 'good'.
HQ - Psychic Powers
For the Primaris Psyker, we can't use Divination at all. Biomancy and Telekinesis have a few really nice powers, but as a whole the houses are quite weak and unreliable, or else just badly suited to Imperial Guard. I think Telepathy will be the most commonly taken (probably for both powers). Even though the top two powers are unusable being out of the Primaris' ability range, the remaining five are all pretty solid. Two of those however pretty much require being combined with Sanctioned Psykers, and given the rules for Witchfire attacks (both units needing to pass Psychic Tests, both needing to roll to hit, and then both needing to get past defences, this seems pretty unreliable). If I was playing Orks, I'd choose two from Pyromancy instead. Spontaneous Combustion is great and the Sunburst power will be delightful against low-I combat mobs. Unfortunately the sniping psychic powers only actually snipe properly if you roll a 5 or less on your Psychic Test.
Elites
Are still pretty similar. Psykers will remain powerful; thankfully still being able to cast Weaken Resolve from the back of a Chimera. Some nice combo potential with the Telepathy power that temporarily removes Fearless on enemy units. Storm Troopers are technically a lot better, being able to walk 6" and still fire single shot hotshots out to 18". But they're still worse in almost every respect compared to Veterans, who have also gotten the same buff. So still not a good choice, and barely viable if at all. The one interesting possibility here is Ratlings. Rolls of 6 to hit can pick target models, so a full squad shooting has a very good chance of being able to select a specific foe, like a meltagunner or icon bearer. However this shot will only wound half the time, and probably won't be rending. I still don't think they'll be chosen that much, especially when people realise you can snipe just as easily with Griffons (more on this later).
Troops
Gah. Still too early to tell. Rapid fire is better, with RF weapons now able to fire once at full range even when moving. The FAQ clarified that this allows you to move 6", and then fire two shots at 24" by using ranked fire. However that traditional stalwart of foot infantry, the Commissar-led blob, finds itself in peril. There are a whole slew of ways for the Commissar to now be picked out and killed by snipers, barrages, psychic powers and duels. Safe to say no one will be accepting any duels with their Commissars (you can just have a sergeant accept instead after all), but they won't be the ultimate security they once were. Fortunately multiple charges have been toned down so having more smaller units is perhaps less perilous. The other big change is that determining shooting ability is done based on model movement not unit movement, so your three-lascannon blob can have the lascannons sitting stationary at the back shooting stuff while the 25 other guys mill about in front of them changing position as the need arises.
I see guardsmen as more essential than ever. Plasma guns will be popular and autocannons will probably be thrown in because of losses elsewhere in the autocannon department (more later). Everything that was trash before (like Conscripts and Bastonne) is still trash now, but Al'Rahem has moved from 'not-that-great' to 'sort-of-strangely-viable'. Better rapid fire rules, more reliable reserves, vehicles no longer contesting and buffed characters all stand in his favour. I'd probably still prefer Creed though if you want outflanking.
Ah yes the big one. Veterans. Well the Veterans themselves are better than ever! Better guns, able to throw krak grenades, and Harker's "I have a 1 in 3 chance of sniping specific models" relentless heavy bolter might even become almost-decent too! However, Chimeras as a whole have arguably suffered a slight downgrade. It's difficult to say, because the vehicle rules are so radically changed. But for now I'd say that vehicles in general are faster (18" top speed), can shoot more weapons (albeit innaccurately), and are much more difficult to suppress (far fewer rolls on the damage table). On the flipside they're more vulnerable to small arms and high ROF weapons like Scatter Lasers (use of Hit Points), and they die like flies in assaults (3+ for enemies to hit, even if you moved top speed). I think the mechanised Veterans will remain a solid work horse of many a Guard army, if only because they have firepower and mobility we aren't getting elsewhere. But the infantry now need to disembark if they want to have anything to do with objectives. Don't know who's spotted it yet, but embarked infantry can Overwatch if their transport is assaulted, so not all's bad.
Fast Attack
Yes, the Vendetta is even more powerful than it ever was.
Vendettas are awesome and win. They do everything they used to do, except now they carry a 5+ cover save with them permanently so long as they move at least 1". If they want to be really annoying, they can switch from Hover Mode (same as you use now) to Zoom, making them a Flyer outright. Only hit on 6's by the enemy, and able to pick off enemy Flyers with ease. Why have they got three Hull Points!? Argh it's a bloody Flyer!Vendettas are so boring in their awesomeness I need say no more.
Sentinels are worse. They arrived late to the Hit Point buffet and only recieved two for being tardy. When Immobilised they also get hit on their rear armour in close combat (bad for the Armoured version), and units that can't hurt them at all can voluntarily retreat from combat (a deathblow for the Armoured version). Goodnight sweet prince.
The Hellhound variants got a bit of a buff. They now have 24" max speed (equally split between the movement and shooting phases), and they can fire two weapons after moving 12". This was previously only open to the Banewolf, but being able to dash 12" and fire two multi-meltas (or eq.) on the Devil Dog will be nice. Also great to have the melta cannon hit at full strength even if it only grazes the target with the edge of the blast marker. Welcome to the A-team Mr Dog. Try the canapés.
Rough Riders are largely similar. The hunting lance is now only Ap3, but they're incredibly fast. Cavalry move 12" and charge 6", Fleet makes your Running moves faster, and it will keep a solid 10"+ in the assault move speed as well. Notice that re-rolling 2D6 charge distance for Fleet allows you to only re-roll one specific die if you choose. Difficult terrain won't slow them down, but will be Dangerous (armour saves work for this anyway). Kamir is also viable! With a full squad behind him he'll have on average 32 attacks with lances on the charge for 145 points. Never thought I'd see the day. Way to go Cruddace for creating a reasonably-costed Special Character. You were only one entire edition too early.
Heavy Support
Let's get the knife wound over with first. Hydras only only fire with normal Bs at skimmers and anything that flies. They're very good at killing skimmers and anything that flies, but as a target set it's nowhere near big enough of a victim-population to support the sort of numbers we've seen. Maybe one squadron of two if you feel very attached to the models. Just make sure they have hull heavy bolters.
The mostly-trash units, again, aren't really getting a whole lot better. I still can't see hordes of Colossus over the horizon. But thanks to the new barrage rules which shamelessly allow sniping of specific targets, Griffons are almost a must-buy. As infantry killers of all stripes they were (and will remain) superb, but they're also better against light vehicles. On top of this Ordnance Barrage seems to no longer exist (pipe up if I've missed it somewhere), which means Griffons can move and shoot with their main guns, but lose the -1Ld penalty on pinning. Meanwhile, Manticores have kept with the times and can land D3 S10 shells that hit at full strength under the entire marker (and all barrage still hits vehicles in the side armour). Long range anti-tank will shift to artillery again (remember the old days?). I'd like to say that the Basilisk is back in vogue, but why would you when you could have a Manticore?
Leman Russ. Right, controversial. I still think the new Hull Point system isn't good for them at all, as the lighter tanks were already getting destroyed by a small flurry of shooting, whereas the Russ wasn't. Also, it only has three Hull Points; the same as a Valkyrie.
Nevertheless, the shooting is pretty good, particularly for battle and demolisher cannons (see reasons above). A basic MBT with three heavy bolters can move 6", fire the battlecannon and one heavy bolter at Bs3, and the other two heavy bolters at Bs1. The real gravy will be with squadrons. Squadrons are actually better than non-squadrons now, as the benefits have increased and immobilised now simply splits the offending vehicle off into a separate squadron. We'll see a lot of two-tank Russ squadrons where Tank A sits further forward than Tank B. Tank A will sit there until it's down to one hull point, then the two will swap over so that Tank B is in the front. The next two hull point damages will come from Tank B, so that after four lost hull points we'll still have both tanks perfectly operational, and probably without even any damage results (including shaken / stunned) to deal with either. I can see the benefits in Hellhound-variants as well, and arguably in artillery, particularly the cheap stuff. Just pad some infantry around to keep them out of combat and you're golden. I honestly don't think the Enginseer is even necessary.
The one downside for some will be that every time a vehicle fires a plasma weapon, it has a 1 in 12 chance of losing a hull point. Those plasma sponsons still aren't an attractive prospect, and remember that the +1 on the damage table for Ap2 weapons was offset by getting rid of the "Vehicle Wrecked" result and replacing it with another "Crew Shaken". Executionar plasma cannons don't count, so grab one of those, stick a lascannon on the front and go to town.
Exterminators. I don't think these will fill the Hydra's empty smoking boots, but a combination of Exterminator and Manticore might hold up enough that we don't lose too much competitiveness here. Which will be better? I have no idea. They're totally different tanks, and where one relies on massive strength shots for good penetrating hits, the other is hoping to whittle down hull points while soaking fire. And to ask the question that I know is inevitable; is Pask a character and can he therefore use Precision Hits to target specific models? I'd say no, but I know that it won't end with these words...
--Sigh-- The Punisher. I still hate it. Yes, if you put Pask in it it becomes pretty good against even Av12 vehicles, and murderous to Rhinos. But frankly if you want to do this, just use an Exterminator instead. It's better in most ways and it costs less. Av11 isn't worth it for the difference in range, for a start. If you paid 250 points in order to have to be stationary to use your all-powerful special rule and you only have 24" range, you are not on to a good thing.
[/ranting]
EDIT: ARRGH! Allies! Right...
Allies
This is huge, and will lead to hideously broken armies that my tiny helpless brain cannot yet comprehend in terms of their true evil. We can technically get everyone except Tyranids, but unless you want some godawful penalties stay away from Dark Eldar and Necrons as well. All the rest are fine as the two categories of remaining allies are either entirely positive or else with weak negative effects that don't really affect us that much.
So, who do we want as our new bedfellows? I'm looking from some original thought on this from my fellow Guard commanders (i.e. you), because this is the sort of thing you really need a lot of imagination to get your head around. Any good ideas? For me:
1) Space Marines of all paint jobs. Not much here to get me excited. It's not just that I find Marines boring, it's literally that the capabilities they offer don't mesh that well with our typical Guard army. A cheap librarian for some psychic goodness backed up by a couple of Land Speeder Storms with some Scouts aboard for late objective grabbing / denial?
2) Daemonhunters. Death Cultists rock. Seriously; they kill anything. Inquisitor could add a bit of psychic spice, and it's a pretty safe option in terms of theme and flavour. Saying that, a hefty unit of storm-shield Crusaders modelled as Imperial Guardsmen with riot shields would not only be epic, but it would give me something to hold objectives with now that I can't sit in my bloody vehicles any more. Much more fluffy. Hmm... maybe a couple of cyber-mastiffs to count as Death Cultists wouldn't hurt...
3) Tau. Do markerlights crossover between armies? Just throwing it out there.
4) Daemons. Oh how you tempt thee. They're even rated pretty reasonably on the allies chart in terms of mutual trust. As much as I should go for something more sensible, there's just something about an enemy advancing towards a Guard firing line only to have a big unit of Bloodcrushers land right in front of him that screams FY. I do have those Carnosaurs still lying around. How would one justify needing one's lizards to always deep strike?
This is in the book. As soon as one vehicle is immobilised, it splits off to form a separate unit. No part of the rule forces it to join again if it's repaired.
Saw that too, but even if it was a typo, the Codex trumps the main rulebook. Codex says "Heavy 3, Blast".
...And then cannot shoot in their own next shooting phase. But that does give them a nice opportunity to redeploy at full speed somewhere, assuming it's not a static gun.
Last edited by Lord Cook; 01-07-2012 at 08:33.
An Exercise in Loyalty - Imperial Guard vs Blood Angels (2000 points), ooh pictures!
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Nice write-up, Lord Cook, an interesting read.
I'm personally still deciding whether or not to sell my IG and start a new army for 6e, but a few things have popped into my head:
- Are Ogryns any good in 6e, or do they still suck?
- Due to the new "all templates on full strength" rule the Deathstrike Missile Launcher has had a slight nerf as there's now no reason not to take a Manticore for D3 blasts, rather than a single AP1 blast. Not that they were hugely popular before, but just an observation.
- Hydras still remain useful, just not as exceptionally useful as before. Others have already covered this, but they would still have a place in my list since I play Eldar and DE quite regularly. Dependant on how popular fliers are in your meta, they still might remain golden.
- Heavy Stubber upgrades. Since weapon destroyed results are now randomised, it seems to me that the humble heavy stubber might be a worthwhile upgrade to slightly increase the survivability of your vehicles' main armaments.
Feel free to correct me on anything as I've only read the BRB once quickly.
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