Blood Angels Tactica - 6th Edition

[Enigma6]

The vindicator is better at wiping stuff like pallys with the reduction to cover saves, and the blast will be more likely to hurt vehicles now, so you can actually use it for its intended purpose.
The problem with the vindi is that it has become easier to destroy like every other vehicle, so works best if you were also putting in a few preds.
The biggest buff to the vindi is that it is much harder to nullify with weapon destroyed, shaken or stunned, so you are much more likely to get a shot off, even if you only get one.

[Gorsameth]

thanks for that my reason for asking was that i was wondering what we should watch out for with these killing machines i.e chances to take out fists/ assasinate characters and stack up combat res without retaliation and on the negative suffer being challenged by a throwaway sergeant or champion and lost a turn of slaughter

moreover i heard Dreadnaughts (furioso and DC) with bloodfists being a feasable choice of eliminating paladins (and biker nobz if i find any) is this a good idea or would a vindicator be a better choice against these types of enemies?

As posted earlier.

The obvious target for fisty DC dread is paladins.
Or other similar multi wound squads

In which case a 2++ warding staff slaps your fists aside before a rain of thunderhammers reduce you to dust.
Unless someone is dumb enough to run an all lightning claw termi squad i just dont see terminators as a viable target for any dreadnought, ever.

[Fixer]

Any thoughts on Vanguard Vets?

I'm thinking the new rules will much improve these guys.
Squad of 6. 220 points.
Sgt. With Powerfist/Storm Shield
2 with power mace.

3+ rerollable reserve roll for turn 2.
With no full reserve armies except those that have to deploy on turn 1, there will always be targets to hit.
Safer deepstriking with less chance of mishap and armour saves vs dangerous terrain.

Charge range improved from 1"-6" to 2"-12"

Sgt. Can challenge enemy character, meaning that his shield takes all the hits which would carve up your regular guys or he declines and your powerfist gets free reign.
High str attacks to carve through armour or troops. Power maces are the most effective initiative striking weapons you can take against all targets but T5 or below 3+ save models. Good for stacking up wounds on 2+ save models.

With a supporting shooting unit nearby with a SP now also get 5+ FNP against power weapon hits.

With my DOA army a unit of these should work out great for taking out threats while the bulk of my standard assault marines DS into position for a Hammer of Wrath charge.

[bobafett012]

Jump packs can only be used in either the movement or assault phases; the FAQ mentions that Vanguard Vets count as using them in the movement phase on the turn that they deep strike, so they wont get the reroll (or HoW attacks) when they use heroic intervention...

Ah, I missed that about the VV vets, that puts a damper on them. They still got a little buff with charge range being increased and the mishap table being more forgiving, but still, without that reroll to charge for the heroic intervention they are still pretty risky for my tastes.




So any thoughts on stormravens now in 6th? I'd really like to hear from some people that have ran some under the new rules before i go pick a pair up. they just seem so damn good now, and not just AV 12 flying coffins!

[blameless]

Ah, I missed that about the VV vets, that puts a damper on them. They still got a little buff with charge range being increased and the mishap table being more forgiving, but still, without that reroll to charge for the heroic intervention they are still pretty risky for my tastes.

From 5th to 6th Their risk factor or difficulty hasn't changed in getting them into combat. They just don't get to use all the fancy buffs 6th Ed doled out.

In fact as I have been using them each game I find they are better now with the 2"-12" charge range... Sounds counter intuative i know as a garenteed 6" seems better. But Generally speaking with DOA special rule I am able to get them withing a few inches each time I drop and the rare times I scatter a full 5" or 6" I still may get a good assault roll to remedy it.

I still use them and rate them highly for the fun factor of bringing some diversity to my lists.

[Glenn87]

hey guys, I'm attending a Tourney soon, and it's 1500 points.
I have no clue where to start. I've played some 6th games with my BA, but that wasn't a competitive list.

Where would you guys start a 1500 list???

[Addiction]

Ah, I missed that about the VV vets, that puts a damper on them. They still got a little buff with charge range being increased and the mishap table being more forgiving, but still, without that reroll to charge for the heroic intervention they are still pretty risky for my tastes.




So any thoughts on stormravens now in 6th? I'd really like to hear from some people that have ran some under the new rules before i go pick a pair up. they just seem so damn good now, and not just AV 12 flying coffins!

The storm raven is brutal provided you can deal with any antiaircraft the opponent has by the turn they show up. The addition of hurricane bolters and its ability to fire four weapons makes it rough to deal with. So far everyone I've fielded has killed more than its fair share of stuff.

[Addiction]

from what i read, yes, sergeants can initiate challenges. I don't have the book in front of me, but i believe in the challenge section it says characters can issue challenges(not just Independant characters), then if you look in the back part of the book where it details all the different armies units in 40k and their designations, sergeants, IC's all have the (ch) designation, meaning they are characters, hence they can challenge. this also brings up some different thoughts on unit make up. its somewhat of a throw back to earlier editions when sergs could be picked out of the unit. here's the kicker, I, like many BA players, run power fists on my sergs, however any unit that has a serg that runs power swords or the like can challenge and kill our power fist serg pretty easily and take him out of the fight.




I personally don't think the sanguinor got much of a buff or nerf, I feel he is about the same because he had a 3++ anyways, he could kill most IC's already, but his biggest drawback, and STILL his biggest drawback is that unlike, say mephiston, he is pretty easily killed by small arms fire because of his basic toughness of 4. He got a small nerf, as you mentioned, having only an AP 3 weapon, which is prolly going to hurt him in the challenges vs characters area, specially IC's since many boast a 2+ save.

Now having said that I feel like meph got a huge buff and is just going to be a absolute monster now(not that he wasn't before). yes he has the Ap 3 sword as well, but force weapons got a huge buff with all hits causing ID instead of only a single hit., he has 2+ save so with many power weapons getting nerfed to AP3 that leaves him in a really good position there. with his str 10 hits(with power) he can clobber any vehicles, and ID any T5 or under models, so thats big, and with transfixing gaze he is pretty much going to destroy any and all IC's in challenges(save a few)

Now I have a few questions for you guys that have gotten in some 6th edition games:

I used to run the assault/Mech hybrid list which worked great with 5 av 13 tanks and then about 3 full assault squads bearing down on them.

However with gw's obvious push to flyers and the rules making them ridiculous (at least until more sky fire weapons are added) i was thinking about adding in 2 storm ravens either purely as gunships, or as transports first then support fire after their cargo her been offloaded. I'm thinking they might work best in a DoA list, but i haven't got any games in yet with the 6th rules.

I didn't mess with them much in 5th because the av 13 spam worked really.well.

Has anyone else messed around with stormravens in 6th and how are they faring compared to 5th?
What roles has anyone tried them in?

Lastly, another unit I think got alot better is the vanguard vets. I think they got better for 3 reasons, 1. the deepstike mishap table is more forgiving now, so with only a single d6 for scatter and less risk of being destroyed. 2. the charge range is now 2d6" so they can reach much further and 3. jump packs get to re-roll that charge distance. So I was also debating giving them another try in 6th(i tried them out a few games in 5th and found them underwhelming...) Has anyone else played around with them much in 6th yet?? and what is your thoughts on them in 6th compared to 5th?

I used VV's a lot previously, with 1d6 scatter it wasn't super difficult before to avoid a mishap. Now with 2d6 charge I'd almost never worry about one and they will be very likely to hit what they charge.

[Dietmar]

This may have been stated earlier in the thread and I may have just missed it.

Not really a tactic but more of a DC loadout thought.

From my understanding, the DC come with (boltgun or bolt pistol) and a chainsword. Also, a chainsword can be of the Heavy Chainsword (+2 str, AP 5 and strikes at I) variety. Assuming the previous two points are accurate, a DC loudout could be boltgun and Heavy Chainsword.
This would add flexibility in the terms of the relentless/rapid fire combo along with 4 str 7 attacks on the charge (this coupled with the H. Chainsword giving an AP 5). This does come at the cost of the +1 off hand attack.

The mathhammer of 4 str 7 vs 5 str 5 are identical at .741 kill per model in the charge round and the 2 str 6 edging the 3 str 4 in subsequent rounds at .370 to .333 respectively. (base for these calculations was WS 4 T 4 target with 3+ armor save, no external buffs or re-rolls were considered in this calc).

[Gorsameth]

So instead of going through countless iterations from play test to test i figured i ask you people for your opinions.

Adding Blood Angel allies to a GK army, 1750 points, already have a solid list of 1050 GK's tho it can be reduced to 1032.
Coteaz, lots of henchman in razorbacks, 2 dreads and a stormraven.

Im looking to add another Stormraven for air support and getting come Close combat deterrent/assault from the Blood Angels since the gk part doesnt have it.
SO my initial idea is a Stormraven (obv). 5 assault marines to go in the raven and capture lategame objectives. death company is also an option but i think the capture/contest part is worth more.
And then a Furioso Dread with double talons and the Sanguinor for assault deterrent/offense. While only AP3 on both the dread can take care of any non terminators while Sanguinor can tie up pretty much anything.

Any opinions from the Blood Angel vets?

[Gorsameth]

This may have been stated earlier in the thread and I may have just missed it.

Not really a tactic but more of a DC loadout thought.

From my understanding, the DC come with (boltgun or bolt pistol) and a chainsword. Also, a chainsword can be of the Heavy Chainsword (+2 str, AP 5 and strikes at I) variety. Assuming the previous two points are accurate, a DC loudout could be boltgun and Heavy Chainsword.
This would add flexibility in the terms of the relentless/rapid fire combo along with 4 str 7 attacks on the charge (this coupled with the H. Chainsword giving an AP 5). This does come at the cost of the +1 off hand attack.

The mathhammer of 4 str 7 vs 5 str 5 are identical at .741 kill per model in the charge round and the 2 str 6 edging the 3 str 4 in subsequent rounds at .370 to .333 respectively. (base for these calculations was WS 4 T 4 target with 3+ armor save, no external buffs or re-rolls were considered in this calc).

Unlike power weapons there is no mention of looking at the model for chainswords. therefore DC cant have em since there not an option in the armylist.

[kaintxu]

Now having said that I feel like meph got a huge buff and is just going to be a absolute monster now(not that he wasn't before). yes he has the Ap 3 sword as well, but force weapons got a huge buff with all hits causing ID instead of only a single hit., he has 2+ save so with many power weapons getting nerfed to AP3 that leaves him in a really good position there. with his str 10 hits(with power) he can clobber any vehicles, and ID any T5 or under models, so thats big, and with transfixing gaze he is pretty much going to destroy any and all IC's in challenges(save a few)

How is this going to happen against a 2+ armor IC? what about a 2+ armor IC who has s TH or some kind of similar weapon?

[bobafett012]

How is this going to happen against a 2+ armor IC? what about a 2+ armor IC who has s TH or some kind of similar weapon?

he has a force weapon, he is likely to be hitting first at I7(specially if they have an AP2 weapon), and he is going to be hitting at str 10, then add in transfixing gaze(if it works) and with the rerolls to hit and wound your likely going to be hitting and wouding every single attack, and thats what, 5-7 attacks a a round?. they are going to fail 1, even if they have a 2+ save due to the sheer amount of dice they are going to be rolling and then be ID'd. obviously there is some situations you have to watch for, eternal warriors with the configuration you listed, anything anti-psyker etc etc, but all in all he is still going to be very potent in most situations. another thing that works great is to keep him close to a sang priest to give him the FnP and with his T6 he is going to get it against almsot everything.

Thats how I have always used meph. I run him up just behind one of my assault squads getting the FC/FnP boost and a cover save from the unit.

[Calmdown]

I'm wondering what people think of Drop Podding some Bolter-equipped Death Company? A solid all round unit that can augment your shooting and then subsequent assault.

I'm considering the same thing. A full unit's worth of close range rapid fire is really nothing to sneeze at in 6th. Being able to charge around in your opponent's backline with units full of dudes with 5 Str 5 attacks on the charge is pretty mean. Drop in a couple of Power Swords/Mauls as you like to the mix too; a charging DC marine with a Mail has 5 Str 7 attacks, which will wreck vehicles and a lot of MCs. And you really dont want to be focusing on cleaning up your backline of 3+/5++ dudes when you have an army full of BA bearing down on your front line.

DC only really get expensive when you add jump packs, imho, and people are considering that a the default option. Space Marines with 4 attacks, Furious Charge and FnP for 20 points each are absolutely ridiculous. The only thing keeping them from being broken is that they arent scoring, but they sure as hell can deny all day long and with bolters, lay down fire if not dealt with. Bolters in the rear of tanks strip hull points pretty fast if left unchecked, btw.

I have 10 ready to go as soon as I buy a Drop Pod. One Sword, one Maul, 8 bolters. 265 points.

[Addiction]

I'm considering the same thing. A full unit's worth of close range rapid fire is really nothing to sneeze at in 6th. Being able to charge around in your opponent's backline with units full of dudes with 5 Str 5 attacks on the charge is pretty mean. Drop in a couple of Power Swords/Mauls as you like to the mix too; a charging DC marine with a Mail has 5 Str 7 attacks, which will wreck vehicles and a lot of MCs. And you really dont want to be focusing on cleaning up your backline of 3+/5++ dudes when you have an army full of BA bearing down on your front line.

DC only really get expensive when you add jump packs, imho, and people are considering that a the default option. Space Marines with 4 attacks, Furious Charge and FnP for 20 points each are absolutely ridiculous. The only thing keeping them from being broken is that they arent scoring, but they sure as hell can deny all day long and with bolters, lay down fire if not dealt with. Bolters in the rear of tanks strip hull points pretty fast if left unchecked, btw.

I have 10 ready to go as soon as I buy a Drop Pod. One Sword, one Maul, 8 bolters. 265 points.

I like this option better without the bolters, don't want to rapid fire as much as I want to charge and finish things.

[GenerationTerrorist]

The Drop Pod Death Company is something I am thinking of adding to my force, too. In all honesty, if a squad (as above) of 265 points takes 60-80% of the bullets from my opponent, it means that my Sanguinary Guard can get in close without taking as much punishment. The hypothetical panic they will cause now will be incredible, especially against the proverbial "pain in the backside" units like Long Fangs.

[bobafett012]

I have been thinking about how to arm my sergeants in 6th while writing up a few lists. It almost seems to me that we might finally be able to move away from the obligatory power fist for the first time in a few editions.

Here is what is going through my mind, with challenges from enemy sergeants in mind, I'm thinking having that power sword that strikes before his ap 2 fist or axe might be a good idea to kill his serg first, and turn the tables in our favor. The other reason we used to pack power fists is for tanks and mc's, but now with grenades being usable in melee, and hitting on ws its really no longer a requirement. Just equip you're serg with melts bombs, and you got his mb, and the rest of the squads krak grenades to take down mc's/tanks.

Another good thing about the power sword is that on the turn they charge in, assuming a priest is in or near the squad, his power weapon is str 5, so even better odds of knocking his serg out first.

Anyways, anyone else give any thought to this, or tried it out in any games yet?

[CutThroatRazor]

I have been thinking about how to arm my sergeants in 6th while writing up a few lists. It almost seems to me that we might finally be able to move away from the obligatory power fist for the first time in a few editions.

Here is what is going through my mind, with challenges from enemy sergeants in mind, I'm thinking having that power sword that strikes before his ap 2 fist or axe might be a good idea to kill his serg first, and turn the tables in our favor. The other reason we used to pack power fists is for tanks and mc's, but now with grenades being usable in melee, and hitting on ws its really no longer a requirement. Just equip you're serg with melts bombs, and you got his mb, and the rest of the squads krak grenades to take down mc's/tanks.

Another good thing about the power sword is that on the turn they charge in, assuming a priest is in or near the squad, his power weapon is str 5, so even better odds of knocking his serg out first.

Anyways, anyone else give any thought to this, or tried it out in any games yet?

No game play yet ... However, I think that it is a good idea with the way challenges work. Although the fist is helpful, a higher initiative challenge will kill you before you swing. So there will no longer be "auto-include powerfist".

Lucky for me, there is no "sgt" in a Sanguinary Guard squad. (I do run a fist though ) I am trying to get them finished and on the gaming table!

[CutThroatRazor]

The Drop Pod Death Company is something I am thinking of adding to my force, too. In all honesty, if a squad (as above) of 265 points takes 60-80% of the bullets from my opponent, it means that my Sanguinary Guard can get in close without taking as much punishment. The hypothetical panic they will cause now will be incredible, especially against the proverbial "pain in the backside" units like Long Fangs.

Please let me know if you try this. I am building a Sanguinary Guard army and I have been seriously considering a Death Company squad for a while now. 10 death company dropped in your face like that is pretty scary. Your opponent can not ignore them. Every bullet they soak up is less bullets the SG are taking.

[Addiction]

Please let me know if you try this. I am building a Sanguinary Guard army and I have been seriously considering a Death Company squad for a while now. 10 death company dropped in your face like that is pretty scary. Your opponent can not ignore them. Every bullet they soak up is less bullets the SG are taking.

I'm not playing full SG armies but I've played drop pod DC and they ain't playing around. After they massacre the first thing the hit your opponent is going to pay a lot of attention to them.