Blood Angels Tactica - 6th Edition

[deadmuppet]

Ok so ive played a few games of 6th edd now at 1200pts and had very mixed resaults.

my thoughts on a libby with priest 2*10 jump packers are kinda rubish. the 5+ fnp and not getting +1 int on the charge makes them pritty tame.

With less cover saves and chosing models outside of cover the shooting game is alot stronger meaning my little red flying men drop like flies. the challange rules realy mess with combats also. priests and libbys with jumpacks can be picked off with shooting challanges and presision strikes.

Noe death company got a boost but in games under 1750 can u afford to use them? and if u do whats the best way to use them? So far im thinking 10 in dropod with bolters fist and sword keeps them cheap and a big threat. or throw alot of points into a stormraven?

[bobafett012]

Ok so ive played a few games of 6th edd now at 1200pts and had very mixed resaults.

my thoughts on a libby with priest 2*10 jump packers are kinda rubish. the 5+ fnp and not getting +1 int on the charge makes them pritty tame.

With less cover saves and chosing models outside of cover the shooting game is alot stronger meaning my little red flying men drop like flies. the challange rules realy mess with combats also. priests and libbys with jumpacks can be picked off with shooting challanges and presision strikes.

Noe death company got a boost but in games under 1750 can u afford to use them? and if u do whats the best way to use them? So far im thinking 10 in dropod with bolters fist and sword keeps them cheap and a big threat. or throw alot of points into a stormraven?

I disagree with alot of what your saying. A 10 man assault squad with a priest shouldn't be dying as fast as your having. first off even though FnP went from 4+ to 5+, its really a small buff overall imo, because it now works on almost everything in the game save stuff that would ID you. so essentially only str 8+ stuff and force weapons. other than that you get your FnP still. so for most shots you should be rolling a 3+ and then a 5+, odds are very good that your going to make one of those. For anything that ignores armor you should still be utilizing cover to minimize casualties. As for challenges, if you have a serg, a priest and a libby then you get to choose which unit accepts the challenge, and even without the libby, you still got 2 choices for the challenge. Equip your priest and serg for 2 different situations(fist, and power weapon) and then if you need the fist, you accept with him, if you need to strike first, use your power weapon(sword, or possibly Lance)

yeah I agree the loss of init with furious charge sucks, but you should be doing way more attacks to units your hitting in CC, and if you are going up against something with I5+ then you need to act accordingly. whittle the unit down or debuff with psychic powers etc etc

DC certainly got a very nice boost. +2 attacks on the charge and no more leading them around. and honestly, without JP's, they are one of the cheapest units in the game for what your getting. I mean, honestly, 200 pts for 10 guys with furious charge, FnP, fearless, 2 base attacks, relentless, WS 5, and your choice of BP+CCW or bolters??? there isn't many unit, if any at all, that can come close to that bargain. IMHO, jump packs are a huge no go for DC, your paying almost as much for each JP as you are for each guy which is crazy. So keep em cheap and keep em on foot with minimal power wapons, maybe a few power weapons tops. So your options are DP, stormraven, rhino/razor, or LR. I love the stromravens. I have been messing with them alot in 6th and they are awesome with new flyer rules. If you go with bolters I think running them in a rhino would be perfectly fine, however, I advise against running DC with bolters for a few reasons as we just went over on the page 18 of this tactica. I realize a SR or LR are alot of points but the damage that the DC can do is pretty crazy (50 str 5 attacks ont he charge, and re-rolls if you toss in a chappy with them). On top of which you still have a nice fire magnet in either the LR or SR, both are very survivable even with the vehicle nerfs in 6th. The SR zooming is very nearly impossible to take down for an opponent without skyfire weapons. In a lower point game, under 1500, I would certianly just use a DP, but otherwise I suggest the SR or LR.

[deadmuppet]

I dont c hows its a buff most not all but most ap 3 weps that will get shot at u are of high str that would instant kill anyway so going from 4+ to 5+ fnp realy hurts because its now the high ap stuff feel no pain is not working on. sute it helps against plasma and power weps but everything else it is worse.

ive played ten or so games now were presision strikes have always gone onto my priest in combat also. Losing +1 int is a massive massive loss also.

so they did faster with less cover saves fnp being 5+ not 4+ means u die to small army more and in combat ur no longer int 5 meaing u die at same time and then ur sarge and priests can be picked off with shooting and combat. Not to mention random charge range and overwatch. 6th edd is not 2 friendly on combat based armys.

[Compel]

One thing I've found is that in 6th ed, against shooty opponents you pretty much need to take the gamble on the 2d6 inch charges now. I just need to accept that my whole army won't get into combat at once and play accordingly.

Admittedly, I wouldn't try it against armies with strong counter charging units, or particularly deadly overwatch units (necrons....) but aside from that, I think you do just need to toss the dice and hope.

[Enigma6]

You shouldn't loose priests to precision strikes that much as they can still be LoS away on a 2+. I'd be more worried about the sgt with his 4+.

The loss of initiative is a bigger blow than the drop in FnP, as at least you get something back with the FnP nerf. There was no compensation for the drop in FC and it means that you loose models in cc that wouldn't have been lost before.

However, BA are still excellent and the nerf to everything else in the game still put them at the top of the list of CC armies.

The problem is that the ALL jump pack army is not as viable any more because of the increased need to soften targets up before charging. Now a mixed list with a few shootier options is probably the best way to go. Also SG and DC finally became useful enough in their own right that some of the weight is lifted off the shoulders of the standard assault marines. They don't need to be your only source of combat now.

I'm not saying that BA didn't get weakened or that assault isn't harder to pull off now, just that every army also got pulled down by at least as much (except necrons), and assault marines can't carry the day unsupported anymore.

[Bartali]

.....I'm not saying that BA didn't get weakened or that assault isn't harder to pull off now, just that every army also got pulled down by at least as much (except necrons), and assault marines can't carry the day unsupported anymore.

Assault based armies (for the most part) got weakened, shooting armies got buffed. While BA can still shoot, they're not as good at it as other Marine codexes.

[SideshowLucifer]

BA's shot just fine. I run the army as a shooty army with a lot of fast vehicles and some assault to get rid of niche units like longfangs and dev squads and such.

[Bartali]

...but they aren't as good at it as other Marine codexs.

BA pay a fast tax for the vehicles, and crucially don't have shooty Dreads in the elites slot. Allies of course can solve some (all) of these problems

[starfox634]

Something I recently tried was putting DC - Captain Tyco with 8 - DC (No JP) + lemeartes in a Land Raider Crusader. They did wonders. I love tycos no armor saves on melee hits. Not to mention he blew up my opponents land raider cause of 2D6 armor pen.

[Glenn87]

Something I recently tried was putting DC - Captain Tyco with 8 - DC (No JP) + lemeartes in a Land Raider Crusader. They did wonders. I love tycos no armor saves on melee hits. Not to mention he blew up my opponents land raider cause of 2D6 armor pen.

can you?? I tought the DC Tycho didn't have the Ind. Character rule??

[The Harvester]

no you can't, he doesn't have IC. Don't think you can put lemmy in a LR with his JP either.

...but they aren't as good at it as other Marine codexs.

BA shoot just as good as vanilla marines, actually BA devs shoot even better. Even the fast tanks, while a little more expensive, shoot better too.

[starfox634]

no you can't, he doesn't have IC. Don't think you can put lemmy in a LR with his JP either.



BA shoot just as good as vanilla marines, actually BA devs shoot even better. Even the fast tanks, while a little more expensive, shoot better too.

Oh wow, then that was a serious my bad. I thought I could select DC - Tyco with DC with no JP in a land raider. Quick question though, how come Lemartes can't be in a LR with a JP? He just takes up 2 out of the capacity?

[bobafett012]

Oh wow, then that was a serious my bad. I thought I could select DC - Tyco with DC with no JP in a land raider. Quick question though, how come Lemartes can't be in a LR with a JP? He just takes up 2 out of the capacity?

yeah, I think its pretty crazy that DC tycho can't be included in the death company. That actually might be one of the dumbest things I have seen out of any of the army books. He can't survive on his own like a mephiston or sanguinor can, and he IS DC, so he certainly should have been able to be taken with a DC squad. Huge oversight on GW's part imo but it is what it is, a unit no one ever runs.

As for lemartes in a LR, I actually think you can do that unless I am just not seeing the rule prohibiting it. I also am not seeing where it says JP's can't ride in a rhino/razorback as well. their rules simply state that terminators can't ride in them(rhino's/razors) and thats it. The rules for jump infantry in the rule book give them deep strike and bulky so they just count as 2 models inside a transport as far as I can find.

[starfox634]

yeah, I think its pretty crazy that DC tycho can't be included in the death company. That actually might be one of the dumbest things I have seen out of any of the army books. He can't survive on his own like a mephiston or sanguinor can, and he IS DC, so he certainly should have been able to be taken with a DC squad. Huge oversight on GW's part imo but it is what it is, a unit no one ever runs.

As for lemartes in a LR, I actually think you can do that unless I am just not seeing the rule prohibiting it. I also am not seeing where it says JP's can't ride in a rhino/razorback as well. their rules simply state that terminators can't ride in them(rhino's/razors) and thats it. The rules for jump infantry in the rule book give them deep strike and bulky so they just count as 2 models inside a transport as far as I can find.

Yeah I just checked my own codex. That makes no damn sense what so ever. I even went to the FAQ to see if it was changed. There is no reason what so ever why DC - Tycho isn't a IC. Almost to the point where I'm considering writing a note to GW asking if it was left out of the codex on accident. He is no Mephiston, and in no way can he survive on his own. And it worked out so well too. I'm honestly lost as to what HQ to run with either DC or Terminators inside the LRC besides a simple Chaplain in terminator armor.

Yeah I didn't think that sounded correct. You can have different model sizes inside a transport, it just takes up more space. Obviously you can't transport terminators due to it specifically saying so. But anyway, I was really hoping to run DC - Tycho in the LRC. Sadness.

[bobafett012]

Yeah I just checked my own codex. That makes no damn sense what so ever. I even went to the FAQ to see if it was changed. There is no reason what so ever why DC - Tyco isn't a IC. Almost to the point where I'm considering writing a note to GW asking if it was left out of the codex on accident. He is no Mephiston, and in no way can he survive on his own. And it worked out so well too. I'm honestly lost as to what HQ to run with either DC or Terminators inside the LRC besides a simple Chaplain in terminator armor.

DC tycho doesn't even need to be an IC, he could just be restricted to joining a DC squad only, really, anything other than they way he is... I still remember the uproar when the codex first released and there was 3 characters that were not IC's in the book and everyone thought there was some mess up. Meph, sanguinor, and DC tycho are all single model units in their own rights. 2 are understandable, tycho is not.

As for what to run with your DC, I just run a plain jane elites chappy. 100 pts is just too good to give all my DC re-rolls to hit and wound plus adds in a few of his own str 6 attacks, plus soaks up some wounds with his 4+ save. He also can be decent for challenging sergeants even with his Ap 4 crozius. realisticly, 2 wounds will normally knock out a 1 wound MeQ serg and if he denies the challenge then he doesn't fight, so win win. A 10 man DC squad with chappy is brutal and is easily one of the toughest, most destructive units in the game. and for 300 pts(325 with a fist) is pretty damn cheap for what your getting as well. pre-6th, i didn't run them much, but now they are amazing. My real issue is I got room in my list for one power house unit, and its either going to be TH/SS terms(maybe 2 LC's) with a priest(probably corbulo) or 10 man DC with a chappy. the terms and priest clock in at 320 and the DC w/ libby come in at 325 so its almost dead even. both ridiculously nasty units and I love terms(i play DW too) but DC are so iconic in a BA list its almost a crime not to use them, specially with the buff to rage.

[MagicHat]

As for lemartes in a LR, I actually think you can do that unless I am just not seeing the rule prohibiting it. I also am not seeing where it says JP's can't ride in a rhino/razorback as well. their rules simply state that terminators can't ride in them(rhino's/razors) and thats it. The rules for jump infantry in the rule book give them deep strike and bulky so they just count as 2 models inside a transport as far as I can find.

Yeah, I had visions of jump packers flying out from land raiders, but then I read page 78. It says jump/jet pack infantry can't embark unless otherwise specified.

[Jonas666]

The SR zooming is very nearly impossible to take down for an opponent without skyfire weapons. In a lower point game, under 1500, I would certianly just use a DP, but otherwise I suggest the SR or LR.

I think this is a bit of an over-exageration. 1/6 to hit & then 4/6 to glance or pen (S8/S9) is hardly ''very nearly impossible''. The fact of the matter is that whilst some armies currently struggle with Skyfire (Nids for example) they DO have weapons that can give your SR a hard time, I've seen the maths on how many shots you need to take down a Zooming SR, whatever, math-hammer is just that, it's maths. If you do get hit by a Lance or something like an Aegis Lascannon then it's not good (Lascannons with Skyfire & Interceptor are downright nasty). I've used a SR twice now, both times it died to non Skyfire shooting, in one game it died after it dropped its cargo (Lemmy, 5DC & DCD) to Devastator Missile Launchers, due to having to move as a Fast Skimmer - fair enough, it did its job. Second game it died to a single Zoanthrope. 1/6 to hit isn't great but it's still 1/6 or 16.66% - it is simply not ''very nearly impossible''. Add on to that the fact that you've likely got 10 DC w/ a few power weapons, a Chaplain of some kind & a DCD all taking S10 hits!... Yeah you're looking at losing circa 700 points right there. Oh & there is always Objuration Mechanicum to ruin your day too.

If you use your SR as a transport for DC or Hammernators like that (so around the 600-750 points mark) then Zooming is, IMO, out of the question. It's too dangerous. Move on as a Fast Skimmer; either

1) Move 6'' & shoot everything with a 5++.

2) Move 12'' & shoot 2 weapons + POTMS with a 5++ (could be good for Lascannon/Typhoon/Bloodstrike combo).

3) Move 12'' & go Flat Out 18'' for a 30'' total move & 4++ & POTMS to shoot once.

Zooming is for gunships, with maybe just a Dread embarked.

As for RAS getting a hard time. Boba is right, a 3+ 5++ should do you good. Use cover, keep moving, don't pick on units bigger (20-30 strong) or tougher/faster (T5 or I5) than you. See, in 5th we could throw a SHP onto a RAS & have them dish it out, they were a super unit & I loved the damage they could do, they were basically flying Berzerkers. RAS still can do well, but in 6th we need to gang up a bit more. No longer can a single RAS take out what it could in 5th. Try using them to assault units already locked in combat? Try having a Dread charge in to negate overwatch fire then send the RAS in? Try using VV to charge, then send the RAS in? I just don't think we should be sending RAS into combat alone, the Initiative FC nerf basically sees us striking the same as most MEQs so now we take a bit more damage, RAS should still beat a bog standard MEQ unit but not like we did in 5th.

Personally I've retired my DC, yes, I know they got 'better' but I always used them in 5th, it's the AP3 Power Weapon that has forced me to let them go, AP3 means I can't take on all the things I used them for (Terminators, 2+ MCs etc) unless I take Power Axes/Fists & embrace I1. I've dropped them in favour of combi-plasma Sternguard and cheap Vanguard Veterans. 7 Sternguard with combi-plasmas & Corbulo is one hell of a combo.

6 Vanguard with a few power weapons & meltabombs allow me a 4/6 chance, re-rolled, to strike at enemy Skyfire, Long Fangs, Hydras, Aegis etc on turn 2. My SR is a happier Flyer knowing that things like that are out of the picture or at least tied up.

Jonas666

[Jonas666]

Assault based armies (for the most part) got weakened, shooting armies got buffed. While BA can still shoot, they're not as good at it as other Marine codexes.

Yes, but can other Marine Codexes get Divination? Think about it...

[Bartali]

GK and SW certainly can, both of which can outshoot BA.

[Jonas666]

GK and SW certainly can, both of which can outshoot BA.

True, but they're cheese BA aren't that bad. Divination gives us a lot of interesting options.