Is Bjorn a character?

[ehlijen]

Hi,

As the title says, is Bjorn the Fellhanded from the Space wolves codex a character as per the 6th ed rules for such?
He is a unique model which seems to qualify him for the status of 'character' but can vehicles be characters?

He doesn't have an entry in the back of the rulebook that I could find (which incidentilly also makes me wonder how many hullpoints he has. 3, I assume but how can I prove that if aksed to?). Is he a character? Clearly he's not independent, that's obvious. And look out sir doesn't apply as he'll never be in a unit, but can he challege other characters? Can he accept (he can't refuse, lacking a unit)? Can he land precision blows?

Thanks for reading and any help!

Until I know otherwise, I guess I'll run him as not a character with 3 hull points.

[Hendarion]

He's not of any type listed in "units" and thus imo might not be a Character. It could make sense to run him as a Character although it sounds rather powerful. I don't think we can answer that without an FAQ - so ask your opponent and if he doesn't agree, use The Most Important Rule.

[Steinhardt]

There is no listing for Samael in Land Speeder either...

[Fluxeor]

I don't have the Wolves codex to hand to doublecheck, however Bjorn is a HQ choice and although he isn't an IC, he should still be able to issue and accept challenges. (*Edit* He can't decline due to not being in a unit, but precision blows and other character relevant rules should apply).
Hull Points wise I'd refer to regular venerable dreadnoughts.
The current FAQ only addresses his Living Relic rule.

[Aertes]

Page 110
Only special characters are "unique". If its "unique" then its a special character, and therefore its a character.

[ehlijen]

Thanks everyone for your input!

I guess I'll use p110 to challenge people then. Actually makes him as a warlord slightly better (quite a few of the warlord abilities just won't work on him).

[Chief Librarian Zypher]

IMO i would say he is a character-walker. he is 'named' after all with a stat line completely different than that of a dreadnought. Such would be Bray'Arth of the Salamanders lol.

[7150]

Page 110
Only special characters are "unique". If its "unique" then its a special character, and therefore its a character.

Unique
Each special character is unique, so a player cannot include multiples of the same special character in an army.

All that the blurb on pg 110 says is that you can't take two of the same special character in one army (so you can't take two Ragnars.)

[GuidingHand]

Thanks everyone for your input!

I guess I'll use p110 to challenge people then. Actually makes him as a warlord slightly better (quite a few of the warlord abilities just won't work on him).

Note that if he is not a character then he would not be the Warlord either (top of page 110, "This is always the HQ choice character with the highest Leadership.")

Personally I could see it go either way, but currently since there is no clarification he's probably best treated as a vehicle rather than a character.

[ehlijen]

Note that if he is not a character then he would not be the Warlord either (top of page 110, "This is always the HQ choice character with the highest Leadership.")

Personally I could see it go either way, but currently since there is no clarification he's probably best treated as a vehicle rather than a character.

Good point. But then what happens if a SW army only has Bjorn as an HQ choice? Do they just not get a warlord? The rules say they have to select one. And at least one of the warlord abilities states that it works even if the warlord is a vehicle (personal no 6). Are there any other HQ vehicles? But then again, he lacks a leadership score, does that make him not legible? He'd lose vs any other character, but could he be the warlord if he's the only HQ?

I'm confused once more...

[GuidingHand]

It's unclear and in need of a FAQ entry.

I would have no trouble allowing a player to use Bjorn as a character and a warlord, since it seems appropriate given his background. There are downsides to taking him anyway, especially with the greater ease of destroying vehicles, so it is not like it would be a massive exploit of the rules.

[Aertes]

One of the Warlord Traits even says that "the model counts as scoring even if its a vehicle" and there's only one character vehicle; that's Bjorn (doesn't Moriar exist anymore?)

[Scalebug]

+1 one for needing a FAQ.

Would say "No", going by letter for the time being, and him having no Ld value to use (as opposed to Sammael with his option for the 3rd ed model on Landspeeder instead of Jetbike specifically noting he has Ld 10)... newer codecis have chararacters noted as their unit type and then (Character), but Space wolfs does not...

Cautiously betting on FAQ saying yes though, and assigning him a Ld value to use.

[wyvirn]

I say yes, because as far as I know, every HQ choice is or has a character. Even Tervigons are characters, and they were just generic monstrous creatures before. Their heavy support counterpart, the Tyranofex, is not a character, so I'd imagine the "Warlord=You" idea applies here because Bjorn is an HQ choice.

[Nkari]

So _everyone_ agrees that Bjorn IS Character, not by RAW tho, since there is no mentioning of this either in the summary or the FAQ.

So basicly, everyone but Tards will allow bjorn to be your Warlord should you wish.

[rickie8437]

So _everyone_ agrees that Bjorn IS Character, not by RAW tho, since there is no mentioning of this either in the summary or the FAQ.

So basicly, everyone but Tards will allow bjorn to be your Warlord should you wish.

well under page 63 about Charactors, it does not say anything about Bjorn not been one, only that he would make a crap squad leader as he has no LD stat, but seeing as he is a Dread he cant join units.

Under the rules for Warlords, its clearly says that you must pick the Charactor that has the highest LD to be your Warlord, so if you only have Bjorn leading your army, he is your warlord, but if you take a nother HQ, that one would then become your Warlord as it has a LD stat, there for is higher than Bjorn.

but if you want to try and say he isnt, whats the diffrence between Bjorn or Mephiston? both dont have the IC rule, yet according to the rulebook, Meph is a character, therfor so is Bjorn

[Nkari]

well under page 63 about Charactors, it does not say anything about Bjorn not been one, only that he would make a crap squad leader as he has no LD stat, but seeing as he is a Dread he cant join units.

Under the rules for Warlords, its clearly says that you must pick the Charactor that has the highest LD to be your Warlord, so if you only have Bjorn leading your army, he is your warlord, but if you take a nother HQ, that one would then become your Warlord as it has a LD stat, there for is higher than Bjorn.

but if you want to try and say he isnt, whats the diffrence between Bjorn or Mephiston? both dont have the IC rule, yet according to the rulebook, Meph is a character, therfor so is Bjorn

Your right, since he has no LD he cant be warlord.. even if hes the only character. By RAW.. how on earth could I miss that.. (prolly cause I forgot he didnt have a LD stat)

But any sane person would still allow bjorn to be your warlord.. since its fits the fluff so damn well.. =) (screw tournys!)

[rickie8437]

Your right, since he has no LD he cant be warlord.. even if hes the only character. By RAW.. how on earth could I miss that.. (prolly cause I forgot he didnt have a LD stat)

But any sane person would still allow bjorn to be your warlord.. since its fits the fluff so damn well.. =) (screw tournys!)

if he is your only HQ, then there is nothing stopping you from rolling a warlord trait for him, some work for vehicals. its only when you take a second HQ that you cant use Bjorn as your warlord.

[Lord Cook]

If Bjorn is a character, does that make Pask a character too? They're both 0-1 named individuals who are always vehicles. Pask could never be your warlord because you will always have an HQ choice with a Ld stat, but that doesn't exclude Precision Shots.

I'm inclined to say no, but I'm open minded about it. Certainly wouldn't deny Bjorn being a warlord if he was the only HQ choice though...

[rickie8437]

If Bjorn is a character, does that make Pask a character too? They're both 0-1 named individuals who are always vehicles. Pask could never be your warlord because you will always have an HQ choice with a Ld stat, but that doesn't exclude Precision Shots.

I'm inclined to say no, but I'm open minded about it. Certainly wouldn't deny Bjorn being a warlord if he was the only HQ choice though...

not really, it doesnt say in the rules that if you take Bjorn or Pask (not sure who this guys is) that you must take a second HQ, if you choose to run with just the one, then there is nothing at all stopping Bjorn been your armys warlord.

is Pesk a HQ choice?

id guess that GW indents them to be, seeing as they have clearly added vehicle to a number of the warlord traits.