Space Wolves 6th edition Tactics

[innerwolf]

The Saga says the character must be in power armor and not have jump pack and bike, which means he can still ride on a thunderwolf, but only battle leaders can take the Saga of Hunter. A battle leader outflanking with a squad of TWC can be viable, especially with their faster movement and stealth, even if they can't charge the turn they arrive, they should be able to get some decent cover and weather a turn of fire before they start breaking things.

I was never all that impressed by TWC's performance in games even with the wound allocation trick, they almost never make their points back against MEQ due to their high point costs and WS4.

That changes things! I could try it just to spice thing up for some games. Thanks!

[althathir]

**looks at tactica hoping for Wolves insight**
**sees people wimping out and whoring allies**
**leaves**

I know you can't help coming across as snarky, but really?

1) If you want less of focus on allies contribute more, don't just expect to sit there passively and have people engage in a discussion on your terms.

2) d6juggernaut asked for help againist Nob Bikers without allies, Vindies are my answer and he'd already mentioned them in his post, but if you think people are "wimping out and whoring allies" suggest something, (rune priests with Jaws), or point why vindicators are a lot better this edition (new blast rules, weapon destruction results being random).

3) Allies are a part of space wolves tactics don't expect them to go anywhere, 6th had a few change ups and made some choices better than they were in the past but allies probably have a bigger effect on peoples army building.

The Saga says the character must be in power armor and not have jump pack and bike, which means he can still ride on a thunderwolf, but only battle leaders can take the Saga of Hunter. A battle leader outflanking with a squad of TWC can be viable, especially with their faster movement and stealth, even if they can't charge the turn they arrive, they should be able to get some decent cover and weather a turn of fire before they start breaking things.

I was never all that impressed by TWC's performance in games even with the wound allocation trick, they almost never make their points back against MEQ due to their high point costs and WS4.

The thunderwolf upgrade results in the wolf lord becoming unit type Cavarly, so you can't take it on a battle leader with a TW. I see it being a lot more useful with a large infantry unit of some sort, but I don't see saga of the hunter as being a great choice.

TWC are great vs. MEQ but they wouldn't gain their points back alot of the time. They're a bully unit and most of the units that would allow them to gain their points back consistently are bad matchups (termies). They're a really fast unit that will light up scoring units, vehicles, and deny objectives that makes them worth it (for example in my last game they killed two big squads of orks, and contested the objective the last squad of boyz was holding) even though they didn't come close to earning their points back they're why I won.

[starfox634]

I run a lord on a TW and a 2+ and a storm shield, and he wrecks. I also run him with 5 TWC as well. I actually have been using a storm eagle for anti-horde, and it works wonders. I love the model, as well as the firepower. Has anyone actually tried Bran Redmaw? He looks interesting.

[steevn]

who's bran redmaw ?

[Nostro]

who's bran redmaw ?

A Forgeworld character.

[BrotherCaptainS]

Just a few posts above twc were mentioned. Twc are more than bullies armed properly and lead by a lord armed properly, they make a mockery of termies. That has been my experience anyway and I have played against several all TH & SS deathwing armies and used just my twc to win the game. lots of attacks and a great charge range along with some staying power from storm shields makes them truly formidable. throw in a power fist and the lord with th & ss, then it is trily frightening. I usually take 3 with storm shields, 1 powerfist in those three and then the lord. However lately i have been going nuts and using a second lord with pf & Ss plus beast slayer. awesome against nobs and monsters. for reference, the first lord has saga of bear and all of the trimmings. My guys normally get their points back with ease. the S10 guys just completely demolish nearly every ground based vehicle there is. Wipe the floor with nobz, termies even paladins. you name it they kill it.

[steevn]

Just a few posts above twc were mentioned. Twc are more than bullies armed properly and lead by a lord armed properly, they make a mockery of termies. That has been my experience anyway and I have played against several all TH & SS deathwing armies and used just my twc to win the game. lots of attacks and a great charge range along with some staying power from storm shields makes them truly formidable. throw in a power fist and the lord with th & ss, then it is trily frightening. I usually take 3 with storm shields, 1 powerfist in those three and then the lord. However lately i have been going nuts and using a second lord with pf & Ss plus beast slayer. awesome against nobs and monsters. for reference, the first lord has saga of bear and all of the trimmings. My guys normally get their points back with ease. the S10 guys just completely demolish nearly every ground based vehicle there is. Wipe the floor with nobz, termies even paladins. you name it they kill it.

so 3twc +lord beats 5 2+/3++ assault terminators ? halberd paladins vs TWC ? am i mising something but aren't that units you do not want to get into combat with (mathematically ?)

[Althwen]

so 3twc +lord beats 5 2+/3++ assault terminators ? halberd paladins vs TWC ? am i mising something but aren't that units you do not want to get into combat with (mathematically ?)

I think assault termies will slow TWC down most of those two. TWC have more attacks than termies, and able to pick their fights due to higher movement.
Grey Knights don't scare my TWC that much since their high Int weapons mean they have no strength bonuses. Sure, everything's a power weapon attack, but SS for the win.

I would not throw my unit of TWC+lord in those units without looking to my guns to do the job, as it will definetly be a nasty fight, but in the end I would accept that challenge any day of the week.

TWC are still a very viable choice , but they need a bigger investment now. More Storm shields and a character to babysit them, in order for them to be really effective. I just love my TWCWolf lord.

[steevn]

A Forgeworld character.

can't find his rules on the site, only in the book ?

[althathir]

Just a few posts above twc were mentioned. Twc are more than bullies armed properly and lead by a lord armed properly, they make a mockery of termies. That has been my experience anyway and I have played against several all TH & SS deathwing armies and used just my twc to win the game. lots of attacks and a great charge range along with some staying power from storm shields makes them truly formidable. throw in a power fist and the lord with th & ss, then it is trily frightening. I usually take 3 with storm shields, 1 powerfist in those three and then the lord. However lately i have been going nuts and using a second lord with pf & Ss plus beast slayer. awesome against nobs and monsters. for reference, the first lord has saga of bear and all of the trimmings. My guys normally get their points back with ease. the S10 guys just completely demolish nearly every ground based vehicle there is. Wipe the floor with nobz, termies even paladins. you name it they kill it.

Then your better at rolling 3++ than I am, cause your only looking at 9-11 t5 wounds againist a unit that would wound on a 2+ with 10 attacks. I can see how the second lord would bring them over the top againist the unit cause you'd be looking at a ton of attacks, but then I think the unit is more of a wolfstar than what most people are thinking of adding to their army (cause your looking at 275 for the wolves and over 400 for the lords which pretty much is your army at some point levels ).

can't find his rules on the site, only in the book ?

Yeah they're in the book IIRC he lets grey hunters outflank, and has a wulfen mode.

[steevn]

Yeah they're in the book IIRC he lets grey hunters outflank, and has a wulfen mode.

nice ! is there a model yet?

[starfox634]

@ Steevn

No, I had to make my own. Hes pretty interesting. On a D6 roll, depending on the turn, he enrages and becomes a monstrous creature were wolf, more or less. At I6, lol. I'll be trying him out this weekend.

As for TWC comments, I love my TWC. Although the way I have been running them is a Lord with a 2+/3++ Storm Shield and Rune Sword for Str 6 Rending, and then a full 5 man squad with Storm Shields. It is expensive, but so far not only have I demolished terminators, but my last game I ran them into a BA player's Mephiston who got over confident in his abilities, and in one round dropped Meph to the floor. Are others recommendations to run a Lord or two Lords, each with 3 TWC with storm shields, and maybe one with a Power Fist? Input is welcome.

[Atherzon]

Has anyone been running or thinking of running Vindicators in 6th? Doing full strength hits on vehicles that are only partially under the template is what first made me look at them. However, if the meta becomes saturated with 2+ armour saves, especially on models with 2 wounds, the Demolisher Cannon is going to look really good. Nobz don't like it. Nor do Terminators (particularly Paladins and the rumoured Nurgle Chosen Terminators and Obliterators in the new CSM codex since they lose the benefit of having 2 wounds and FNP, if they have it). Oh, and our own TWC.

The problem is that they are a Heavy, thus they compete with Long Fangs for room, and the short range, which will make them less survivable.

[starfox634]

Honestly, I dislike running anything thats less then 12 AV on all sounds, or at LEAST front/side. Things just get glanced to death so easily now. My friend runs a vindicator, and usually it gets one shot off, then is instantly killed. I don't see them ever living past one turn. I rather have long fangs or a LRC with a CC unit inside.

[C4PTUR3]

Has anyone been running or thinking of running Vindicators in 6th? Doing full strength hits on vehicles that are only partially under the template is what first made me look at them. However, if the meta becomes saturated with 2+ armour saves, especially on models with 2 wounds, the Demolisher Cannon is going to look really good. Nobz don't like it. Nor do Terminators (particularly Paladins and the rumoured Nurgle Chosen Terminators and Obliterators in the new CSM codex since they lose the benefit of having 2 wounds and FNP, if they have it). Oh, and our own TWC.

The problem is that they are a Heavy, thus they compete with Long Fangs for room, and the short range, which will make them less survivable.

You could always take an ally Marine force to give you the extra Heavy slot if you refuse to give up a Long Fang squad? Opens up a scout/bike scoring Troops option which could be handy. I like the Vindicator in theory, I think it got a huge boost with 6th, being able to shrug off glancings and still fire and for all the reasons you stated (particularly the ability to deal with Terminators which people seem to love in 6th and M/L Long Fangs bounce off) and I think that the ability to pre-measure the 24" does help with their survivability. I personally plan to test it this weekend in SWs w/IG allies, so I can take a Manticore, a Chimera loaded with special weapons and a Vendetta on top of the Grey Hunter Loaded Rhinos to try and draw some of the fire away from the Vindicator.

[Atherzon]

The AV 11 on the side is pretty big, especially because of the short range of the cannon. That is why I hesitate to take one even though the S 10, AP 2, large blast is very appealing. Would it be a good option in a list that takes quite a few Rhinos and Razorbacks to create target saturation? Include a Rune Priest for a 5+ cover save along with its other utility?

[WeeDawgNYC]

As for TWC comments, I love my TWC. Although the way I have been running them is a Lord with a 2+/3++ Storm Shield and Rune Sword for Str 6 Rending, and then a full 5 man squad with Storm Shields.

Im I missing a few things here in this latest edition (6th)...?

1) Can you now gain rending ability with special weapons?
2) Your allowed to take Saga of the Hunter on a WGBL & mount him on a Thunder Wolf & outflank/scout with it???

Is this insane truth or just wishfull thinking?

[starfox634]

Does a Rune Sword, which just adds +1 Str, count as a special weapon? Most of the examples I have seen where rending no longer applies is with a Thunder Hammer/ Power Fist, which has special rules. (i.e. Unwieldy, Specialist Weapon, Concussive, etc). I did not think that a weapon that just adds +1 Str is considered to be special. I could be wrong. Anyone else with input?

As for Sega of the Hunter, I believe you can outflank and scout with them. Outflank and Scout I believe are stated as "If at least one model with this rule", which means the character, and TWC squad he joins or by himself, gain those rules. I was considering this, but I don't like that I can't possibly get into combat until turn 3, since on turn 2 when they come in, they cannot charge.

[The_Klobb_Maniac]

You are incorrect I'm afraid. Any weapon that does something special doesn't gain rending. You get either or. Also notable is that this applies to powerweapons or other weapons with an AP value (such as if you had an Ap5 or AP6 weapon in your options.) This is the same as the fact you can't get rending from your wolf onto your bolt pistol.

[starfox634]

So even having a power weapon takes the effect away? That kind of does not make sense to me. I can understand the Rune Sword, since it actually modifies the character's stats. However, a basic power weapon loses the rending? That does not seem right in my opinion. Reason being, in the rulebook it stats that for example, a "special" power axe, with its own rules does not fall under the basic profile of a "Power Axe" (+2 Str / AP2 / I1). So thinking that way, a Rune Sword, does have its own rules. Which I would then have to agree with you Klobb, that in my mistake it is a special weapon. But having a basic Power Weapon, should not be classified as a "special weapon" in the same category as things such as a power fist, thunder hammer, rune sword, etc, or things with their own rules.