Lord DamoclesIf Codex: Dark Eldar thought that Eldar and Dark Eldar were/are one and the same, Vect's Ancient Nemesis rule wouldn't specify 'Against Eldar or Dark eldar units...'
If Codex: Dark Eldar thought that Eldar and Dark Eldar were/are one and the same, Vect's Ancient Nemesis rule wouldn't specify 'Against Eldar or Dark eldar units...'
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Are Harlequins Eldar? Is it dependent on which book you take them from, even though they are the same unit? Just accept it needs a FAQ
If I had 2 squads on the table, one squad was Banshees and the other Wyches, when I go to cast fortune to the "Eldar" unit I think it is quite clear which squad is "Eldar".
But alas, as long as the new rule book says battlebrothers can cast psychic powers on each other this will not end. With the wording in the Eldar codex which I think "trumps" the rule book I think saying Eldar is Dark Eldar is rather thin logic and not supported.
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I'm a dark eldar player using farseer in my army and think it's painfully obvious that eldar and dark eldar are sperate codexes, hence seprate "races". If I had someone at a store seriously arguing this with me I just wouldn't play them, and wouldn't be playing in a tournament that ruled farseers to be guiding dark eldar units. I can understand new players being confused, but it's honestly depressing that this is debated.
KwiKwag...I don't have the book in hand at the moment, but I'm almost positive the main rule book refers to battle brothers able to cast psyker powers that say friendly units on eachother. The eldar power doesn't say "cast on friendly units" it says "eldar units".
I don't know, imo he is part of the race.Originally Posted by TrangleC
Same as Cegoragh or Slaanesh
But while the Avatar and Cegoragh are more like "the big uncles", Slaanesh is more of "the evil twin".
Edit:
Note that this is more some kind of sarcasm and not meant to contribute to any conclusions for this topic.
Last edited by Hendarion; 06-07-2012 at 05:10.
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Fortune works on a Falcon and a Falcon is no Eldar.
Where is your sarcasm now? :P
Some ppl have to spoil all fun.
Eldar - Fear The Rainbow!
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A Falcon is an Eldar unit, what's the problem?
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How about Reavers? Their unit type is "Bike (Eldar Jetbikes)" according to the codex.
Bike (Eldar Jetbike) is the name of a specific rule. They wanted the Reaver jetbikes to move the same as the Codex Eldar Jetbikes so gave them the same rule rather then rename the rule for someone else. It just happens they used the word Eldar there. I also think they would have no problem using the rule for other jetbikes (like the master of the ravenwing) if they wanted him to move the same rather then a regular jetbike rather then just renaming it. Just like they equated the Avatar to a demon so that it would follow and be affected by the rules for demons.
Last edited by Emissary; 09-07-2012 at 18:14.
My personal opinion is:
1. Codex says "Eldar unit", means "from Codex: Eldar". That said, Harlequins from Secondary Detachment can't be target of Fortune/Guilde.
2. Someone forgot to FAQ Furtune/Guide (IMO most vital Eldar powers). And it doesn't really matter if it would be "friendly unit" or "unit from Codex: Eldar". GW should think about it and prevent this confusion completely. It's also highly likely the "Eldar unit" wasn't changed intentionally to "push" Eldar players to choose the new system (which is IMO not bad, but certainly not really that breathtaking for Eldar).
If a Falcon is an Eldar unit, are Incubi also Eldar units?
Eldar - Fear The Rainbow!
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Currently rules would support an Archon gaining fortune by being part of a unit from Codex: Eldar at the point at which fortune is cast upon it.
For theexample I'll use a unit of Wraithguard containing a Farseer and an Archon. The logic is thus:
Fortune #1 - "Nominate one Eldar unit within 6".." - The Wraithguard are an Eldar unit within 6" so are a valid target.
Fortune #2 - "The unit may reroll any failed saves.." - Important that it says 'the unit' at this point, not Eldar in the unit.
IC rules (pg 39) - While an Independant Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes.."
So in this way you can legally have a fortuned Archon (or Lilith or Vect), they just have to be part of an Eldar unit.
With regards to fortuning a Dark Eldar unit, there currently aren't any rules to support this. The best arguement I've seen relies up on a reasoned arguement that they are the same race, however since DE and Eldar are mentioned in several place seperately (Vect's Ancient Nemesis "Against Eldar or Dark Eldar units..", the BRB "Eldar (and Dark Eldar) Jetbikes"), it's fair to assume that Eldar refers solely to Eldar and Dark Eldar refers to Dark Eldar. Fortune may well be FAQd to include Dark Eldar (or allies in general), but until such an FAQ exists the claim that Dark Eldar are Eldar is just an arguement that the FAQ should exist, not a demonstration via RAW.
That's the way I'm going to be playing it. I'm not casting fortune on the archon, but he does get the benifit from the rule becuase of the IC rules.
This way both eldar codex's can get some close combat muscle without breaking the world.
Although I do feel the intent is that dark eldar can get psy benifits from eldar, or they wouldn't be battle brothers
Hmm....what is this link?
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Don't confuse fluff with rules...
Even if the fluff says that Dark Eldar are Eldar, the game rules don't speak fluff and for them Eldar means codex Eldar models and units.
Sad, but true. When making an argument about rules, you should just focus on the rules and wipe out any sort of "realism" or "background relevancy" from the equation. The rules do not make sense in a fluff way. They are supposed to mimic it in most ways, but in some they do not. For example, per the rules, a Razorwing fighter is in a very bad situation when paired against a Vulture gunship. And read any fluff and that will say that Vultures are breakfast for Razorwing fighters. Makes no sense fluff-wise, but that's the rules. Just accept that and move on.
I am an Eldar player and I dislike it as much as the next guy, but until the FAQ or a new codex comes up to clarify things, this is how it stands.
I would agree that an archon in a wraithguard unit would get the benefits of fortune for the reasons above.
One thing to note: Dark Eldar are not the same race as Eldar. Both decended from the same race: Pre-fall Eldar. The rulebook states on page 206 at the end of the first paragraph: "In many ways, the Dark City was the birthplace of the race known as the Dark Eldar, the forsaken and corrupt kin of the Eldar." They are similar like Horses are to Donkeys. Later the rulebook states that most of the Imperium doesn't recognize the difference between them and just lumps them into the Eldar category.
^Hence I really don't see any basis for saying that Eldar = Dark Eldar on any racial level for this discussion.
As also stated before, another good indicator that ruleswise Dark Eldar are not Eldar is how the Eldar Jetbike Rule specifically states (and Dark Eldar). If they were the same they wouldn't have felt the need to include (and Dark Eldar).
Lets please not count the fluff in here, because fluff also says that Craftworlders may become Outcasts may become Corsairs may become Dark Eldar.
Eldar - Fear The Rainbow!
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I agree Dark Eldar IC in a unit of Eldar is a valid receiver of Guide/Fortune.
The Wraithguard would re-roll but not the Archon.
And if you are allowing the Archon a re-roll because joined ICs have the unit rules (noted above) then he would ignore difficult terrain tests when joined with Pathfinders.
Likewise, an Autarch would gain FNP when attached to a DE unit with a pain token.
There is a difference between generic rules for ICs/Units and specific rules for ICs/Units.
Last edited by toxic_wisdom; 14-07-2012 at 12:14.
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So how do you reconcile the following?
Fortune - "The unit may reroll any failed saves.."
IC rules (pg 39) - While an Independant Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes.."
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