Grey Knights Tactica 6th Ed

[GodlessM]

I don't think we need allies; we have everything we need in one form or another.

Most important pointI want to make first is the OP's assertion that Dreads are just as good. Sure they can glance vehicles to death, but the fact that we will be seeing a lot less vehicles and that the Dreads themselves can only survive 2 glances with the 3rd killing them.

Paladins, Draigo and a Libby are going to be pretty much auto-include now as are Dreadknights and Stormravens. I think Thawn will be an awesome take now as well. Karamazov and Tech Marines will now be much better as will Plasma Acolytes. Crowe lists may see a comeback if people don't want to play TDA lists.

So for me it's Draigo, Libby with 4 powers, 5 Paladins with two MC Psycannons, 5 Termies with Thawn, 2 Dreadknights with Incinerators and Swords, and 2 Ravens with the usual set-up. Ravens can deal with flyers and the few vehicles that show up, Dreadknights can deal with enemy Terminators, Termies deal with other enemy troops, with the characters giving great support.

[Sekhmet]

I don't think we need allies; we have everything we need in one form or another.

Most important pointI want to make first is the OP's assertion that Dreads are just as good. Sure they can glance vehicles to death, but the fact that we will be seeing a lot less vehicles and that the Dreads themselves can only survive 2 glances with the 3rd killing them.

Paladins, Draigo and a Libby are going to be pretty much auto-include now as are Dreadknights and Stormravens. I think Thawn will be an awesome take now as well. Karamazov and Tech Marines will now be much better as will Plasma Acolytes. Crowe lists may see a comeback if people don't want to play TDA lists.

So for me it's Draigo, Libby with 4 powers, 5 Paladins with two MC Psycannons, 5 Termies with Thawn, 2 Dreadknights with Incinerators and Swords, and 2 Ravens with the usual set-up. Ravens can deal with flyers and the few vehicles that show up, Dreadknights can deal with enemy Terminators, Termies deal with other enemy troops, with the characters giving great support.

The new list to beat is Necron scythe spam... 3 doomscythes, imhotek, and lots of 5 man warrior squads with nightscythes depending on pt total.

2 ravens will get knocked out of the sky in one turn. Then what do you do?

[GodlessM]

The new list to beat is Necron scythe spam... 3 doomscythes, imhotek, and lots of 5 man warrior squads with nightscythes depending on pt total.

2 ravens will get knocked out of the sky in one turn. Then what do you do?

Who says my Ravens will be on the board turn 1?

But you are right that Necron Scythe SPAM will be the list to beat, as if I needed to loathe Necrons any more.

That's another place the Dreadknights can back up if needs be; I don't believe there's any additional rules for templates against flyers, so his auto-hitting Incinerator can bypass the 6 to hit, and with AV10-11 vehicles, while not exactly reliable, it is a good back up to have just incase it all goes wrong.

Should game sizes increase past 1850pts (and somehow hopefully stay beneath 2k) then I will be definitely getting an Aegis Defence Line with the Quad Gun. Of course should Thawn prove not worth it, that's nearly those 100pts already.

EDIT: BTW just incase anyone is curious, you get Imotekh, 2 Pulseteks, 6x5 Warriors, 6 Nightscythes, and 3 Doomscythes for exactly 1850pts. It is scary. Better make sure you roll 6's and pass all your 2+ saves.

[Raverrn]

Who says my Ravens will be on the board turn 1?

But you are right that Necron Scythe SPAM will be the list to beat, as if I needed to loathe Necrons any more.

That's another place the Dreadknights can back up if needs be; I don't believe there's any additional rules for templates against flyers, so his auto-hitting Incinerator can bypass the 6 to hit, and with AV10-11 vehicles, while not exactly reliable, it is a good back up to have just incase it all goes wrong.

Should game sizes increase past 1850pts (and somehow hopefully stay beneath 2k) then I will be definitely getting an Aegis Defence Line with the Quad Gun. Of course should Thawn prove not worth it, that's nearly those 100pts already.

EDIT: BTW just incase anyone is curious, you get Imotekh, 2 Pulseteks, 6x5 Warriors, 6 Nightscythes, and 3 Doomscythes for exactly 1850pts. It is scary. Better make sure you roll 6's and pass all your 2+ saves.

Templates and Blasts cannot hit flyers, so that's a no-go.

[Sekhmet]

Who says my Ravens will be on the board turn 1?

But you are right that Necron Scythe SPAM will be the list to beat, as if I needed to loathe Necrons any more.

That's another place the Dreadknights can back up if needs be; I don't believe there's any additional rules for templates against flyers, so his auto-hitting Incinerator can bypass the 6 to hit, and with AV10-11 vehicles, while not exactly reliable, it is a good back up to have just incase it all goes wrong.

Should game sizes increase past 1850pts (and somehow hopefully stay beneath 2k) then I will be definitely getting an Aegis Defence Line with the Quad Gun. Of course should Thawn prove not worth it, that's nearly those 100pts already.

EDIT: BTW just incase anyone is curious, you get Imotekh, 2 Pulseteks, 6x5 Warriors, 6 Nightscythes, and 3 Doomscythes for exactly 1850pts. It is scary. Better make sure you roll 6's and pass all your 2+ saves.

Who said anything about Necron flyers being on the board turn 1?

You can only have 1 pulse per overlord, so only 1 pulsetek and probably a chronotek to reroll night fight on imotekh.

And templates/blasts can't hurt flyers.

[GodlessM]

Who said anything about Necron flyers being on the board turn 1?

You did actually when you said they knock my Ravens out of the sky turn 1.

[Your Mum Rang]

So I'm curious about Paladins. What squad loadouts will we see? Will Dragio and 10 Pallies be overkill? I was thinking of 10 of em with 4 MC Psycannons and an Apoth is nasty enough!

[Stezerok]

A couple of things to point out: Necron Scythe spam is not actually as possible as we're making it out to be. All flyers must start in reserves and only half of the army can be held in reserves. Thus Necron players will need to choose between taking Doom Scythes or Night Scythes with guys. They will actually need to take somewhat balanced lists.

Also for Stormravens, while they do get to use their weapons as Skyfire for being Flyers, at the same time their weapon options won't actually perform much better than our basic psyfleman snapfiring (as amusing as that is,) and since the SR stands at 2 hull points and can't really carry troops due to the prohibitively scary str 10 ap 1 hits the troops take for it getting wrecked, I personally don't see it as being worth the 200+ points you'll be paying for it. If you want it to carry troops, then an LR or Rhino are much safer methods of doing so, and if you want it to shoot planes down then the TL-LC/Typhoon ML will be your best buy, but for quite the premium.

[grayghost]

So for me it's Draigo, Libby with 4 powers, 5 Paladins with two MC Psycannons, 5 Termies with Thawn, 2 Dreadknights with Incinerators and Swords, and 2 Ravens with the usual set-up. Ravens can deal with flyers and the few vehicles that show up, Dreadknights can deal with enemy Terminators, Termies deal with other enemy troops, with the characters giving great support.

Are you talking about 4 stock powers? If I read the book correctly, if you choose from the BRB you only get two, three if you juice his abilities.

[Patriarch]

Also for Stormravens, while they do get to use their weapons as Skyfire for being Flyers, at the same time their weapon options won't actually perform much better than our basic psyfleman snapfiring (as amusing as that is,) and since the SR stands at 2 hull points and can't really carry troops due to the prohibitively scary str 10 ap 1 hits the troops take for it getting wrecked, I personally don't see it as being worth the 200+ points you'll be paying for it. If you want it to carry troops, then an LR or Rhino are much safer methods of doing so, and if you want it to shoot planes down then the TL-LC/Typhoon ML will be your best buy, but for quite the premium.

Stormravens have 3 hull points.
I've got 3 in the army, apart from dropping off termies into shooting/charging they are much more manouverable than psyflemen and have a wider range of shooting including melta. With the new flyer rules I'm expecting them to be much more survivable...though for that price, they ought to be. I guess the trick is to unload the cargo as soon as possible and free the raven up to e a gunship for as long as it can survive.

[GodlessM]

A couple of things to point out: Necron Scythe spam is not actually as possible as we're making it out to be. All flyers must start in reserves and only half of the army can be held in reserves. Thus Necron players will need to choose between taking Doom Scythes or Night Scythes with guys. They will actually need to take somewhat balanced lists.

Also for Stormravens, while they do get to use their weapons as Skyfire for being Flyers, at the same time their weapon options won't actually perform much better than our basic psyfleman snapfiring (as amusing as that is,) and since the SR stands at 2 hull points and can't really carry troops due to the prohibitively scary str 10 ap 1 hits the troops take for it getting wrecked, I personally don't see it as being worth the 200+ points you'll be paying for it. If you want it to carry troops, then an LR or Rhino are much safer methods of doing so, and if you want it to shoot planes down then the TL-LC/Typhoon ML will be your best buy, but for quite the premium.

A few things here; flyers do not count toward the limit for reserves, so the half is only chosen from Imotekh, the Court, and the 6 Warrior squads in the list earlier, meaning you start a few shams hiding somewhere for a turn or so.

Next up, Storm Raven has 3 HP, not 2. As has been the trend lately, people seem to be forgetting that Dreads are now done to a 3 wound model essentially, oh and are now hit on the back armour in combat if immobolized, not to mention they take up the Heavy slot which is now much better spent on Dreadknights to deal with the Termies that will give us so much trouble. As for Snap Fire with them, on average it would hit just the once, and then has to penetrate and get a substantial result to have any immediate effect. Raven will usually hit with most if not all of its shots (depending on weaponry) and have a much better chance of doing damage. Asuming Lascannon and either Typhoon or Multi-Melta, that's 2-3 shots at S8-9 rather than 1 shot at S8.

Ironically if you take Dreads over Dreadknights now, you need something to deal with TEQ without relying on rending, and the one thing that really covers that is the Raven with Plasma Cannons (which hit guys on the ground at BS5).

Raven might be a bit pricey, but it stands much better than any other flyers in the game and is the most resilient and diverse, being AV12 all around, immune to the Melta extra dice, and can even heal HP if you have a Tech Marine in it which people now often will to double up with all the grenades for the Termies inside.

Are you talking about 4 stock powers? If I read the book correctly, if you choose from the BRB you only get two, three if you juice his abilities.

Read the FAQ.

[Buddha777]

I'm thinking of maybe adding some grey knights to my necron force but since I've never used grey knights, I need some help on equipping them. My goal is to help with anti-MEQ and anti-TEQ.

Libby (165): Hammer, Smite & Quicksilver
5 Terminators (225): 2 Hammers, 3 Halberds, Psycannon
Dreadnought (125): Plasma Cannon

[Stezerok]

Wow, the 3 hps on the SR surprised me, but I don't have a reference section in the back of my copy... XD

But what do y'all think about plasma cannons now? I have a suspicion that between gets hot and perils on fortitude our vehicles could be killing themselves off often...

[Sekhmet]

You did actually when you said they knock my Ravens out of the sky turn 1.

No, I said in 1 turn, not turn 1. Necron flyers will generally show turn 2 and 3, so will your 2 ravens. When they show up, they'll have exactly 1 turn to kill as many (up to 4 via PotMS if you're super lucky) Necron flyers as they can before being shot down.

[orik]

I'm thinking about adding an Inquisitor accompanied by some GK to my IG army. Never played GK before, and don’t have the codex yet (still waiting on it to arrive), so haven't the slightest clue about wargear or any of that yet

Just wondering if somebody could help me out by suggesting some good builds

[Coyote81]

Ironically if you take Dreads over Dreadknights now, you need something to deal with TEQ without relying on rending, and the one thing that really covers that is the Raven with Plasma Cannons (which hit guys on the ground at BS5).

I fail to see how even with the monstrous creature upgrades, that terminators (Lets say standard 5x C:SM TH/SS) can be delt with by taking a Dreadnight. I know you not talking about wading in close combat, and you swords/heavy incinerator combo isn't going to have much of a shootying impact on them.

CC example:
Dreadknight charges. 1 S6 auto hit that wounds on 2+ and gets saved on 2+ =.14 dead terminators Dreadknight goes first 5 attacks 4.44 hits, 4.32 wounds .1.44 dead after strom shield saves. So far he's killed 1.58 terminators. Even if you count the .11 dead terminator from the heavy incinerator. It's only 1.69.

Terminators attack back. Lets say they failed their fear test. 8 attacks 2.67 hits, 2.23 wounds 1.48 wounds after saves.

So in the best situation (You charging and them failing their fear test) you managed to kill .21 more terminators then the wounds they caused on you. Next round won't be nearly as good for you with you striking at I1.

My math be off, but the overall point is that the contest is too close to start with for you to have a chance to come out on top against a unit that cost less points as well.

[Your Mum Rang]

What's the maths on 10 Arco-Faggelants charging said Termies?

[GodlessM]

No, I said in 1 turn, not turn 1.

My bad I misread your post.

I fail to see how even with the monstrous creature upgrades, that terminators (Lets say standard 5x C:SM TH/SS) can be delt with by taking a Dreadnight. I know you not talking about wading in close combat, and you swords/heavy incinerator combo isn't going to have much of a shootying impact on them.

CC example:
Dreadknight charges. 1 S6 auto hit that wounds on 2+ and gets saved on 2+ =.14 dead terminators Dreadknight goes first 5 attacks 4.44 hits, 4.32 wounds .1.44 dead after strom shield saves. So far he's killed 1.58 terminators. Even if you count the .11 dead terminator from the heavy incinerator. It's only 1.69.

Terminators attack back. Lets say they failed their fear test. 8 attacks 2.67 hits, 2.23 wounds 1.48 wounds after saves.

So in the best situation (You charging and them failing their fear test) you managed to kill .21 more terminators then the wounds they caused on you. Next round won't be nearly as good for you with you striking at I1.

My math be off, but the overall point is that the contest is too close to start with for you to have a chance to come out on top against a unit that cost less points as well.

Right well a few things here.

Against TH/SS we don't have an answer in our own Codex. The best we can do is send in the Dreadknight with his Great Sword swinging with 5 attacks re-rolling to hit and to wound, and to try get off that Divination spell that makes the enemy re-roll passed saves. It's not perfect, but it's the best we've got.

My point was aimed at the other terminators in the game, the ones that swing with fists. They may have not been popular in 5th but they may be now given the boosts to shooting, and we can't ignore it. The Dreadknight can comfortably deal with these. He is also adept at fighting other GK Termies so as long as he gets the charge, which is much more likely than things happening the other way around.

BTW, why are you under the impression the Dreadknight is attacking at I1 in the second round of combat? And where do you get the idea that TH/SS are cheaper than a Dreadknight? TH/SS x5 is 200pts. Dreadkngiht with Incinerator and Sword is 185pts.

[Yaro]

How have heavy psycannons been buffed, and what is this DCCW fix?

[Stezerok]

Blasts no longer reduce their strength against armor when their hole scatters off the hull. So Heavy Psycannons will always be strength 6 against them with rending.

Also GodlessM I definitely disagree about sending your Dreadknight at the TH/SS termies. That sounds like an awful waste of a good model. His AP 2 is wasted on their 3++ and their Concussive TH's will make him strike at I1 next turn if he survive and doesn't flee from combat (I have had mine flee off the board before due to a bout of bad luck.) I really don't think that terminators will provide us with much of a problem unless you play an exclusively terminator/paladin heavy armies (and even then we can take Daemon Hammers on literally all of our models, and can even take Plasmas on our Henchmen, or PCannons on our Dreads/Stormravens.) For armies that use Strikes or Purifiers, dealing with Terminators will be the same as usual: put enough Psybolt shots into them and they'll go down.