Grey Knights Tactica 6th Ed

[Sekhmet]

well I'd put the DCAs in a stormraven because stormravens are pretty much obligatory for anti-aircraft duties now.

also, with a power sword and power axe, you still have the option of using the sword against non-2+ save units.

[kaintxu]

Anyone feels our SR are subpar to BA's since without the s8 ap1 misiles Tíbet cannot hunt fliers as evectively

[duffybear1988]

I think the Brotherhood champion is looking like a good buy personally. He is pretty cheap and will work great against enemy ICs and unit champions. One of the coolest things is that his one hit wonder attack when he dies ignores armour saves completely if you can pull it off.

For the points he packs a 2+ and a 3++ in combat with re-rolls to hit (on the charge) and re-rolls to wound. I only wish he could mastercraft the sword instead of getting digital weapons (which are pointless as he already re-rolls failed wounds).

Honestly I don't know why we don't see more of him... ok he has 1 wound, but these days packing a 2+ save and a 3++ is tough to crack, especially when he can re-roll those if you want him to.

[GodlessM]

also, with a power sword and power axe, you still have the option of using the sword against non-2+ save units.

You can't switch which you are using in game; you have to model the weapon and use that one. So if you use swords you can't dent Termies, and if you use axes you can't dent anything else. Seems DCAs are a bit dead in this edition.

[Patriarch]

You can't switch which you are using in game; you have to model the weapon and use that one. So if you use swords you can't dent Termies, and if you use axes you can't dent anything else. Seems DCAs are a bit dead in this edition.

DCA have 2 power weapons, so if your DCA model carries one of each, you can choose which she's using each round of assault.
Turn 2 - fighting PA marines - use the sword at I6 AP3, with the axe for +1A only
Turn 3 - fighting Terminators, use the axe at I1 AP2, with the sword for +1A only

[NixonAsADaemonPrince]

You can't switch which you are using in game; you have to model the weapon and use that one. So if you use swords you can't dent Termies, and if you use axes you can't dent anything else. Seems DCAs are a bit dead in this edition.

What people are thinking of doing is modelling their DCA with a Sword and an Axe, and thus are able to choose which to use in each combat while not sacrificing an attack.

Anyway, are there any more thoughts on dealing with Flyers apart from take a Storm Raven? (Ignoring Allies and Fortifications).

I've been thinking a unit of Paladins with 4 Psycannons with the Primary Divination power cast on them, averages ~5 Psycannon hits on a Flyer. Are there any other rulebook Psychic Powers which could be useful against Flyers, both directly and indirectly?

[Sami]

You can't switch which you are using in game; you have to model the weapon and use that one. So if you use swords you can't dent Termies, and if you use axes you can't dent anything else. Seems DCAs are a bit dead in this edition.

They are armed with two power weapons. You model one as an axe, and one as a sword, thus giving you a power axe and a power sword. When you charge, you then pick which one you wish to use (as described in the "melee" weapon type section). As neither the axe or the sword are "specialist" weapons, you still get a flat +1A for having two melee weapons, even if they are of different types.


edit: lol everyone rushing to explain this .

[Gorsameth]

I think the Brotherhood champion is looking like a good buy personally. He is pretty cheap and will work great against enemy ICs and unit champions. One of the coolest things is that his one hit wonder attack when he dies ignores armour saves completely if you can pull it off.

For the points he packs a 2+ and a 3++ in combat with re-rolls to hit (on the charge) and re-rolls to wound. I only wish he could mastercraft the sword instead of getting digital weapons (which are pointless as he already re-rolls failed wounds).

Honestly I don't know why we don't see more of him... ok he has 1 wound, but these days packing a 2+ save and a 3++ is tough to crack, especially when he can re-roll those if you want him to.

While on paper it might look awesome lets not forget that your forced to use Perfect Warrior and in a challenge he is in b2b with only 1 model. Rapier strike vs IC is awesome but against a sergeant your forced to chose between not attacking or a single attack from swordstorm.

You didnt see Brotherhood champions because we already kill things very fast and dont need to spend 100 pts to make it a little faster.


What does the rest of you think about putting Paladins in a Stormraven. Is the risk of the transport dying the turn it comes on the board and destroying your expensive unit worth the mobility granted by an AV Flyer?

[Plasmafest]

I think the Purgation Squad is being overlooked. Wound Allocation stops models out of sight from taking any hits regardless of how much non-barrage fire is sent at them, but range is considered only for the nearest model - wounds can be carried beyond weapon range. Purgation can Astral Aim and shoot anything that got a whisker within 24" range (+move ofc), including psybolt SBs. Note, the power specifically states its effect is granted to any character that has joined the unit.

[GodlessM]

I think the Purgation Squad is being overlooked. Wound Allocation stops models out of sight from taking any hits regardless of how much non-barrage fire is sent at them, but range is considered only for the nearest model - wounds can be carried beyond weapon range. Purgation can Astral Aim and shoot anything that got a whisker within 24" range (+move ofc), including psybolt SBs. Note, the power specifically states its effect is granted to any character that has joined the unit.

Purgation Sqauds are being overlooked because they are improving the cover save of what they shoot at.

[Plasmafest]

Purgation Sqauds are being overlooked because they are improving the cover save of what they shoot at.

I can live with a 5+sv becoming a 4+ if it means I don't have to waste a bunch of unsaved wounds against a unit taking cover behind buildings and vehicles. The anti-Night Fighting effect is also a plus.

[Your Mum Rang]

Anyway, are there any more thoughts on dealing with Flyers apart from take a Storm Raven? (Ignoring Allies and Fortifications).

I've been thinking a unit of Paladins with 4 Psycannons with the Primary Divination power cast on them, averages ~5 Psycannon hits on a Flyer. Are there any other rulebook Psychic Powers which could be useful against Flyers, both directly and indirectly?

This is VERY interesting to me as I wanted a 10 man Pally unit but felt the need to add in some Storm Ravens purely because I felt the need to combat flyers.

[NixonAsADaemonPrince]

@Your Mum Rang:

In the 1750pt lists I've been experimenting with I've been pairing that tactic with a single Stormraven, so that I can hopefully cope with a full Scythe spam list. I don't know what it will be like in practise though.

[bebe]

You could always master-craft your psycannons anyway - not sure divination is needed. Between psyfledreads and psycannons we are okay still. Is anyone considering fortifications? Aegis defense lines seem a nice addition. With their quad autos, I can hide troops behind them all game. Also jokaeros seem better if you take two. No one will charge into 2 flamers that fast and I do like crusaders now. Being a big fan of foot lists I'm content with 6ed. Pallies and terminators, fortifications, DKs even on foot, jump infantry - all quite nice now. I know we will see flyers but I'm not adding SRs to my list too fast. I will have to get some allies as well just for fun. An RoW Seer with all our Aegis pretty much shuts down psykers.

[NixonAsADaemonPrince]

You could always master-craft your psycannons anyway - not sure divination is needed. Between psyfledreads and psycannons we are okay still.

Well Master Crafting only brings it up to 0.833 hits from the standard 0.666 hits per Psycannon firing, while Divination takes it up to 1.222 hits. So quite an increase.

And Psyflemen only average 0.666 hits as well, so by no means a sure fire why of taking them out. To be fair though they're pretty good, just I'm a bit nervous of them being targeted early Maybe Reserved Psyflemen in a Psychic Communion list could be the way to go?

[unforgiven555]

I think that storm ravens will be quite useful in this edition, especially in an inquisitor coteaz list.

You can shove a cheap troop squad (combat squad or retinue) in them, to deep strike out of them near the end game and grab objectives.

If I'm understanding this correctly, a suicide melta/plasma troop (with inquisitor coteaz ) squad could work very well with storm ravens, as they can disembark the turn they arrive as you ignore flying bases (I could be wrong).

EDIT: this is incorrect, Shadow skies overrides 6" movement but not restriction on zooming from disembarking - my bad

I also think that inquisitor coteaz , with twin-linked (via psykik powers) triple plasma servitors is very good.

I think that the restriction for units not being able to assault after disembarking will slow the game down enough that their requirement to come in turn two won't be too significant a drawback. In the case of significant anti-aircraft fire, just hover. You'll take out a tank, of close to or equal value, and the guys inside won't be able to charge you (I could be wrong on this role of 6 the guys don't disembark they are "placed" ergo can assault in the subsequent phase - my interpretation could be wrong but it seems to hurt meltas as if you wreck the vehicle the guys disembark and can't assault you - if this is the case we can move away from meltas and towards assault cannons and bolter on rear).

They're going to be about as effective as dreads at taking out tanks (given that they are on a flying base and cover is now more likely to be 5+, and the AP1 factor).

Whenever I've played against fliers I've found their main benefit in 5th was movement denial. They would reliably pop transports and take out lone stragglers on objectives. Unless they are completely spammed, most other races fliers can be ignored. They'll take a few hull points off of our rhinos (or target our storm raven) but power armour should see us through most anything but vendettas. This is not the case with the storm raven/vendettas as it's going to ensure we get the charge and can reliably take out AV13 and 14.

I don't think you need to take a paladin squad, or TH&SS in them. It's overkill. Even our troops are capable of ripping through most other units.

What worries me are the flying monstrous creatures. Any ideas on how to deal with fateweaver/DP spam, or CSM with fateweaver, plague marines and DP/flying DP allies?

[Stezerok]

CSM Daemon Princes are not Flying Monstrous Creatures last my friend was raging to me about it lol. Pretty stupid, since the Daemons one is, but hey: that's GW for you.

The thing about flyers that makes transporting guys difficult is actually the distance they need to move. If you want to disembark guys from the flyer the turn they come in then you are doing so practically within your own deployment zone (since they can only disembark if the vehicle moved up to 6"). You'll need a turn to get this suicide squad in position, at which point the question becomes: do you Hover them and move Flat Out 30" to position and risk taking the brunt of the enemies AT fire on your 12/12/12 and 4+ Jink? Or do you Zoom them up to 60" getting the Hard to Hit and 4+ Jink, but risk the troops inside dying to Crash and Burn?

While we're talking about Skyfire and AA guns, let's not forget that while we may want to run a Puritan Grey Knight army, the vast majority of players out there will have access to IG and their 3 Hydra Flak Tanks. We may see a lot of armies bear down on our Stormraven with 12 TL Skyfire Autocannon shots that ignore our Jink to boot. Just some stuff to consider.

[Gorsameth]

What worries me are the flying monstrous creatures. Any ideas on how to deal with fateweaver/DP spam, or CSM with fateweaver, plague marines and DP/flying DP allies?

You hit them once and there forced to take a grounding test or take a str 9 ap 2 hit. Add in force weapons everywhere and im not worried about Monsters.

I feel your right about the hover for the stormraven tho. Its easy to get focused on Flying when even if it comes on the table as a skimmer it can move 30".

While we're talking about Skyfire and AA guns, let's not forget that while we may want to run a Puritan Grey Knight army, the vast majority of players out there will have access to IG and their 3 Hydra Flak Tanks. We may see a lot of armies bear down on our Stormraven with 12 TL Skyfire Autocannon shots that ignore our Jink to boot. Just some stuff to consider.

The hydra doesnt have Interceptor and so will only hit ground targets on 6's. I dont think we will be see that many off them. Vendattas are much better for IG at providing anti air.

[GodlessM]

Good to see someone else realsied the Hydra's huge downfall.

And who is this Cortez guy?

[unforgiven555]

CSM Daemon Princes are not Flying Monstrous Creatures last my friend was raging to me about it lol. Pretty stupid, since the Daemons one is, but hey: that's GW for you.

Lash is very powerful right now. Most flying monstrous creatures are 250+ (aside from the harpy with 2 attacks) . I was referring to armies such as:

Chaos Space Marines (core)
1-2 Deamon Prince (Lash)
Units of 5 Plague marines with combi melta, meltax2
Units of 2 obliterators

Chaos Deamons (allies)
1 Fateweaver
1 5x plague bearers
1 deamon prince with wings (flight)

or just fateweaver flying circus.

You hit them once and there forced to take a grounding test or take a str 9 ap 2 hit. Add in force weapons everywhere and im not worried about Monsters.

Mainly Chaos deamon flying circus is what I was referring too. Fateweaver is just disgusting.