@ Gonefishing : I agree with what you're saying about Tau and allies except for one thing. I just like firewarriors too much. I prefer at list 4 full squads. But yeah even My favorite tank, hammerheads, could be replaced with other more effective tanks.
Originally Posted by Zabousta
i take elder specifically eldrid ultheran and 5 dire avengers eldrid cast 3 powers a turn and can cast the same one more then once. i roll in divination and every one bar buffing him in assault is awesome especially the primes power (makes a squad of fw twin linked or even pathfinders with mk and can be cast on 3 units) he also has good psychic defence (runes of witnessing) making every psychic test on 3d6 and getting perils on 12 or higher. this costs 265 points and i load up on troops and let the pain begin....
Played a 2K list last week using my horde Tau!
That's right folks, 100 Kroots, 5 Hounds, 12 Fire Warriors, Death Rain Shas'el, Bastion with Quad Gun, Warboss on Bike, 5 Nobz Bikers, and 60 Boyz! Roughly 186 models if you count Bastion + Quad Gun separate. Oodles fun! Here's the battle report posted by my friend, Jy2:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum.../0/464118.page
Enjoy!
My Project Log featuring: Tau and Sisters of Battle
Links to my battle reports
dont try and get your ethereal killed take him with a body guard squad making them fearless and bs 4, deploy 12' out and start walking forward with massed troops, mk support ally eldrad and his ability to make 3 units just with the divination primis power prescience twin linked (another fire warrior squad and a pathfinder for twinlinked markerlights) that can be 20 bs 4 (use 1 of around 4mk on 1 squad of fire warriors) twin linked shots at range 30. then use rest of mks for another squad of fire warriors making bs 5 or reducing ld of unit that your shooting. then when he does die meh you get pe.
troops: fire warriors with mk support and or psychic powers are so sexy. yes they are a bit fragile but if you take a bunch of them then the enemy has to many higher priority targets to shoot (shadowsun, eldrad, etheral, broadsides etc) that by the time he gets around to it he has hopefully lost his anti infantry tanks to your broadsides. in regards to other troops killing them they are range 30..... not 24 so you start by deploying out far then when they walk forward you walk back (this is where pre-measuring is your friend) staying out of range of them. then when you have thinned them out step forward and double tap them for the killing blow. if he gets off a good run roll then step forward for your 21' double tap range and watch the shear amount of armour saves forced onto that little 10 man marine squad. another quite usefull psychic power is misfortune.
fast attack gun drones and pathfinders are a match made in heaven. with the fishes deep strike re-roll they drop in on a flank or near a scary blob squad of something and use a mk hit for a bs and use rest of mk for lowering ld value for the pinning test. great against guard power blobs or pesky orc looters etc. they then continue doing this till your opponent is forced to waste something chasing off into the distance a unit that is quite hard to catch. i had a fantastic moment with a squad who pinned a guard power blob for a turn and then got charged by another squad and with the overwatch re-rolls and a bit of bad luck on my mates part ended up with 2 squads pinned and my drones ready for round 2. and remember every shot at them is not at your fire warriors.
heavy support
broadsides are awesome lots of different ideas with those bad boys. i use them to pop vehicles and any fortifications that my opponent has.
sniper teams...... i like them, use them allot like gundrones but more effective at killing those pesky spesh mehrines and with some extra mk go for pinning tests on units that can be pinned. they are hard to kill but provide a headache and soak up a bit of fire power.
Last edited by indigoon; 25-07-2012 at 09:17.
Lots of intetesting things happening and good points and issues being made. Time to edit it all together and try to be more even handed, with recommendations for tournament and non tournament players
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Ok I'm going to break my ideas on units down into a post per section of the army list so there is plenty of space to add more things as faqs get updated, new ideas pop up etc. I've also incorporated a few other people ideas (credit given when due
Army overview
As it stands at the moment, Tau are a very odd army. Their army book is one of the oldest out there and it shows, clearly being from a generation of books that preceded the focus on troops as scoring units and cheap transports.
The army list works, but units will have to work together a lot to bring down tougher units, some units really are just junk, and more often than not, your units will have to specialise to be effective. You will also find that certain models will do the bulk of the work, whilst others are just there to stand around and look pretty/hug cover and claim objectives.
Not that this means that Tau are a bad army by any means. They still have some great units and the model range is wonderful and any games you have with them with be fun, as you find ways to stave off the distasteful notion of close combat that the rest of the galaxys races seems fixated upon
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HQ
Shas'o/Shas'el
Two different points values for the same HQ choice, the more expensive one having better stats (+1 WS,BS, W, A and Ld). For such a cheap price, its defiantly worth taking the more expensive Shaso. He has access to a few unique items in the Tau armory such as the Airbursting fragmentation projector, cyclic ion cannon, positional relay and iridium armour. Be sure on one thing though, use him for one type of shooting (so anti vehicle/heavy infantry or light vehicle/ light infantry) only and then pair him with a unit that will best compliment that. You waste his good BS5 otherwise. Take two weapons on his to better utilise his high BS, along with a multi tracker.
Though he can, it would be advised not to run him on his own, as his low toughness and save will mean he gets killed very easily by even concentrated small arms fire. As mentioned by Gonefishing, equipping him with a hardwired black sun filter and/or Advanced stabilisation system can be a great way to confer special rules to the unit he joins for cheap, giving them the ability to ignore Night Fight and move and fire their heavy weapons without having to snapfire. In larger games, maybe take two, as they are the best HQ option we have at the moment.
He can take a body guard of crisis suits which have access to the special issue items he does, but for such minimal stat increases considering their points hike (and none that actually help them shoot better!) its better off just sticking him with a crisis or broadside team.
Ethereal
‘The only HQ you actually want dead’ seems to be the new nickname for this bloke, due to some outdates rules meaning that, whilst alive, he really doesn’t help the army at all. He has few options other than to take a Honour Blade which makes him a higher strength in combat. The only possible (distasteful) use for him at the moment is to kill him off and then hope enough of the army passes a morale check to gain Preferred Enemy. Or else, use him as a placeholder for your firing line of fire warriors, taking honour guard (which are BS4) and Fearless whilst he is a part of their unit and letting those in line of sight of him (really) re-roll morale checks.
Commander Farsight
The closest the tau army has to a combat monster, taking him does deprive you a little of some of your best units, but does mean that at least your army may be a speed bump for enemy assault units instead of just effectively not being there. If you like themed armies and have a more aggressive approach to combating your opponent, hes a possibility. Loves his Crisis suits as well, so a having a massive suit army is possible with him.
Commander Shadowsun
I have never really played with this model so can’t give much advice, but Valdrog suggests using her 18’’ leadership bubble to allow you ignore the worst effects of a Etherial popping his clogs and then reaping the rewards of Preferrend Enemy may be the way to go. She seems a little overcosted for her equipment though. Perhaps leave her at home.
Aun'va
He really has no use in the army at present. He costs nearly as much as Abbadon, and provides little over what a Etherial currently does (units gain Furious Charge as well as Preferred Enemy when he dies). Really, just leave him at home, unless you love the model or feel that having the closest Tau have to a zealot improves the fluff of your army.
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Elites
Crisis battle suits
This is the armies work tool and it’s this unit that you will be utilizing most when it comes to light vehicle and heavy infantry killing. With the loss of Target Lock (which is a pain in the ****), other options now become a lot more presentable.
If you want to have a bit more flexibility and don’t mind running expensive suits, you can take two weapons, with a Multi Tracker. I would ideally take plasma and missile pods to cover all your heavy infantry and light vehicle killing needs. Flamers and Burst Cannons do seem like a good idea, but as all our troop choices excel at killing infantry anyway its pretty unnecessary. Take a team leader with a hardwired Blacksun filter and that pesky Nightfight in most scenarios may as well not exist!
Another option that popped up and has been made more appealing with the loss of Target Lock now is twin linking weapons. Having a unit of 2/3 suits with twin linked weapons and a Blacksun filters runs your suits lean and mean and allows you to customise and focus each unit to a set task. Deep striking them will allow for you to position them to better combat the enemy and avoids having to dance from cover to cover to try and avoid the opponents heavy weapons. Be careful not to place them too close, or you may find them falling prey to mass small arms or assault units, both which will kill them dead. Use that jet pack move in the assault phase as if you roll well you can now move a whopping 12''! The other end of the spectrum, rolling snake eyes is possible, so think about where you are placing them in the movement phase ( the introduction of pre-measuring will make this a lot easier).
Join a Shas'o/Shas'el to the squad and upgrades and you can save a lot of points on things like Blacksun filters and Independent Characters now confer any USR they have to the unit they join.
Stealth teams
Before, this unit was overlooked as its stealth rules were a bit random and due to the squads basic armourment having only an 18” range, was pretty worthless when it came down to it. Now they have been changed to have a permanent 4+ cover save even when out in the open, this unit has shot up in usefulness in my eyes. When you think that by jumping back into cover using your jet pack assault move, that cover save becomes 2+!
Infiltrate and outflanking hasn’t really affected them and one good tactic is outflanking a large squad of them with a Kroot squad or two makes for a large firebase (that will be able to strip hull points off most vehicles like no-ones business thanks to being able to see their rear armour) the your opponent really won’t be able to ignore. The cost of the unit may put people off them, but with very few options to upgrade them anyway, so you can run them as them come basic and not be afraid you are missing out on anything.
If nothing else, the changes 6th have brought have allowed this unit to become strong contender now. It will eat into your points for crisis suits and heavy support options though.
Last edited by blackcherry; 25-07-2012 at 20:13.
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Troop
Fire warriors
These guys have two good things going for them, a not too shabby 4+ save and the weapon they tote, a range 30’’ S5 AP5 pulse rifle. Regardless of your own opinions of them, you will be taking at least one squad as these guys are a mandatory 1+ option in the codex.
With the new rapid fire rules, they have gotten a lot more mobile and efficient for their points. It’s just that everything else is pretty naff and they are quite expensive when compared to the cheap infantry of more recent Codexs. Combined with the new rules for vehicles and the cost of Devilfish Transports, larger squads of fire warriors, moving to take objectives and then hunkering down seem to be the way forward, all the while trying to put off assault as long as possible. A team leader with bonding knife and Blacksun filter seems to be an obvious build to maximise their shooting abilities and survivability.
The squad has the option of swapping their pulse rifles to pulse carbines, which have a shorter range, are assault and cause pinning tests if they score a wound. Unless you are willing to invest heavily in a markerlight army to help reduce the enemies leadership it is currently a not very viable tactic as Ld is so high across the board as to make leadership tests pointless in all but a few armies (in a twist of fate, Tau are one of them). Rumours coming from the new CSM codex suggest that Ld may not be as high as in the past and if this a continuing trend the developers want to push, we may see a change in the meta and subsequently a re-establishment of markerlight heavy armies.
For now though, its needlessly complicated, makes your army into an even more static shooting force and the loss of that extra 12” range and rapid fire is too detrimental to the squad. Leave the models on the shelf for now unless you like a challenge (and considering the army, that’s approaching masochistic levels).
Perhaps take defense grenades if you have the points, but face facts, if a dedicated assault unit hits fire warriors, losing the plus one attack for charging won’t let them survive any longer.
Devilfish Transport
As with all vehicles in this edition, vehicles have received a (much deserved I feel) nurf, as they are far less survivable due to hull points and the reduction in the effectiveness of our decoy pods. This has been made doubly so with the Taus’ only transport option in the codex, due to just how expensive it they are before you even take any upgrades.
In higher point games, the vaulted 4th/5th edition ‘fish of fury’ tactic may still work as you have more hulls, but at the same time your opponent will have more points for anti tank weapons/tanks of their own. With the removal of scoring whilst in a transport its harder to justify their inclusion in a list either.
They are still useful to keep your fire warriors protected as they advance toward objectives but its still a very expensive box of death and reduces the amount of shots you are putting out each turn (darn those lack of fire points!). As with all vehicles this edition, it looks like you go full on or not at all, hugging cover all the way. Devilfish are just too fragile to take in small numbers otherwise.
Kroot
The cries of ‘nurfed to death’ have followed these guys around since the release of 6th, but don’t believe the hype. Despite being used as a cheap cannon fodder/assault unit in the past, 6th edition just means that kroot squad sizes will have to increase in size to survive the turn if they outflank and the following overwatch should the assault. From a personal stand point I will just continue to use them as I always have, as either a small 10 man sniper squad to harass and disrupt people or as a large squad outflanking to create a fire block.
Whilst it will be less effective than the surprise assault force of 5th , Kroot were always a counter assault unit anyway. Its worth taking the shaper as a 3 wound, S4 character for such a cheap cost is hard to come by these days. Pass on the pulse rifle option though.
Last edited by blackcherry; 26-07-2012 at 18:38.
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Fast Attack
Gun Drones
I’ve always had a problem finding a use for these guys in any list. Twin-linked, pulse carbine jetpack troops seems great, but having BS2 means their shots won’t be hitting much anyway. If you have the points, they make a great sacrificial unit and are always fun to use in games with friends but really, with their cost and rubbish Ld, I’m sure the points can be better spent elsewhere.
Pathfinders
If you are running a marker light heavy army, these are the guys you want in your list. 4-8 Markerlights a unit means that whatever you want dead, will have no cover save, love leadership and will have multiple units shooting at them with an improved BS. Unfortunately the unit comes with a deadweight in the form of a mandatory Devilfish. May be an idea to just scout them and give the transport to a fire warrior squad who can use it for free protection. Due to the removal of target lock as a working upgrade, its not worth the points to upgrade to pulse rifles and besides, it wastes the potential of the unit in the first place. Team leader, bonding knife and Blacksun filter as usual.
If you want to make a Markerlight force, get at least two units to maximise what you are trying to achieve.
Piranhas
I have never used these guys, so if anyone can provide some tactics it would be appreciated
Vespid
See above, though unlike me not taking Piranhas because I don’t have the cash to buy a full squadron, I have never used these guys because they just seem a very confused unit in general, like the designers couldn’t figure out what they wanted to do with them. Models are a bit naff too. Any advice on how to use them would be great
Last edited by blackcherry; 26-07-2012 at 19:36.
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Reserved for Heavy Support
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You reserved spots are going to be difficult to find as the thread grows. You should get the OP to update the first few posts with your thoughts or start a new Tau Tactica thread, if you plan on maintaining your posts, and close this one.
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Thats what I plan to do
Or alternatively I can start a new thread that I will happily keep updates on a weekly basis if needed. I just don't want to start a new thread if people feel its unnecessary or if it may split people between the two.
Last edited by blackcherry; 25-07-2012 at 14:03.
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And please put a link to the new thread in this ones OP and LP
Just to make it clear. I have no intention of starting a new thread unless that is what people want. The OP has stated he is happy to turn his first post into a tactica, I'm just providinga single set of posts that people can use as a starting point and can copy paste into his first pos, under the proviso that hes happy keeping it updated from then
Alternatively, if people really want to start afresh, I'm happy to open a thread tonight with my tactica as the starting point, that can be added to by the community and kept as a living, evolving tactica, that I update as people put forward ideas and the 6th edition meta changes.
Either way, its all down to the OP and community support as to what happens.
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I have to be honest here (and this is something I always hated people saying in 5th) - but Tau will do fine (ish) in friendly games but when it comes to any sort of serious tourney play in the larger more cheese filled Tournaments I can really only offer one recomendation - dont take Tau.Lots of intetesting things happening and good points and issues being made. Time to edit it all together and try to be more even handed, with recommendations for tournament and non tournament players
I love my Tau army, I took them to the large UK tourneys throughout 5th, and I will still play them in all my games in 6th....but I wont be taking them to any more GT's till we get a new book (unless our flier turns out to be amazing....).
For this to be a real Tactica thread we actually have to produce some tactics.... we can keep listing units strengths and weaknesses and disagreeing with each other till the Cows come home....In 4th we had Mech Tau and Static Tau, In 5th we Had Hybrid Tau and Ninja Tau - and we had wonderfully detailed tactica's and summaries outling points effcient and effective ways of playing Tau, and the units that fit into that paticular type of build best. So far in 6th the only two 3 ideas I have come across that could be losely considered as (really undetailed) tactica's are.
Suicide Tau - (Kill the Ethereal and hope your army does not runaway and that prefered enemy makes your Fire Warriors useful) - Personally I think this is to much risk for two little reward.
Thunder Tau - (Take a Tau army and Belial and a unit of Termies and rely on them to draw fire/keep the rest of your army alive).
Ostrich Tau - (Take a shed load of Fire Warriors, sacrifice a chicken ritually to the dice gods, dig in)
So far none of those things is making me think "wow". When 5th came out I looked at the Tau Codex and saw a world of possibilites, now I look at the Tau Codex and think "What allies give me the best chance of lasting till turn 5". Sorry Blackcherry, I know your trying here and I dont mean to bring a downer to the proceedings but so far this thread has mostly been "Fire Warriors can move and Fire", which would be great apart from a few points:
1: Everyone else can move and fire and all we get is a 6"range advantage (which basically means with proper positioning we get to fire first) but still die next turn when our opponent moves forward 6"
2. It does not change the fact that Firewarriors are tactically a one trick pony, with no secondary uses or access to special weaponry, who are extremely overcosted, fragile and points inefficient.
I also dont want to run a tactic that calls for me to throw my Ethereal off the nearest building in the hope it will make my army better, and I have lost count of people bigging up sniper drones for the ability to precision fire...despite the fact that sniper drones do not actually have sniper weapons. If we are going to make this a proper "Tactica" we need to produce game tactics that are viable, sound and realistic - that take an honest and objective look at the units in our codex and fit them into the new ruleset. We need to look at the missions in 6th and work out whats the best way for the current Tau army to meet those objectives, and we need to find worthwhile combinations - Units that have multiple uses and can adapt to different armies and mission types and work in support of one another in a viable and effective way.
So far I have not yet seen that in this thread, I have seen it in other threads for other armies - but not this one or any other Tau focused forum/thread across the net (even ATT is decidely light on viable tactics). Infact the dearth of actual viable allcomers tactics emerging is what worries me the most, is it that they have not been discovered yet - or is the fact that they dont actually really exist?
Now I realise I am being very negative here, and I want to clarify I am not complaining about 6th edition as a whole - I dont mind the new ruleset (although I think Hullpoints were a step to far) - but I really do think that as a whole, Tau have come out of the new ruleset incredibly badly (only the nids potentially got as badly nerfed). Also I would love to step into the breach and offer up ideas and tactica's for Tau in 6th (thats what I did when 5th came out).....But after scouring through the Rulebook and Codex I am stumped! I really cant see anything particually worthwhile and no realistic way to build a decent allcomers list. When I look at allies the situation improves, but then I look through the Codex and can see numerous better ways of building the list by using the allies as the main codex and giving them Tau allies. Sorry Again Blackcherry - I really dont want to be negative here, and I appreciate what you are trying to start - I also really really really hope I am wrong, and that someone on this site utterly proves me wrong - but a month into 6th now still no one out there in internet land has published a viable tactic for Tau that does not involve either Suiciding Ethereals or a shed load of expensive allies.
No worries man. You make some really good points and I agree with you to an extent. Its why I want to set up a more official tactica, so not only will people stop listing the same ideas over and over again, it allows a framework of ideas to exist which people can then build on which will allow for tactics to actually be built up, analyzed and hopefully come to some sort of agreement on how Tau work in 6th.
But to do that, we need the basic bones there. The mission strategies, and how they interact with armies, allies and along with specific tacticas for each faction can come later. You have to learn to walk before you can run.
Plus, well we aren't the only ones who have threads that are this much of a mess. The Space Wolves tactica says hi.
Last edited by blackcherry; 25-07-2012 at 20:11.
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In my opinion we won't really be able to put together a decent Tactica (army composition and tactics) until a meta starts to develop for 6th. The only thing that has really been solidified right now is you need some plan to deal with Necron flying (your own flyers or ignore the flyers and destroy troops seems to be the two). Tau will NOT be dictating the meta, that's for sure. We still have railguns, JSJ with a very versatile weapon's package, and now we have troops that used to be horrible are now just bad. There has to be a viable way to combine everything, but we probably won't know what it is for a bit longer.
A post has a limit, that's why you see the OPs of new Tactica threads are reserving the first set of posts for future updates.Just to make it clear. I have no intention of starting a new thread unless that is what people want. The OP has stated he is happy to turn his first post into a tactica, I'm just providinga single set of posts that people can use as a starting point and can copy paste into his first pos, under the proviso that hes happy keeping it updated from then
Alternatively, if people really want to start afresh, I'm happy to open a thread tonight with my tactica as the starting point, that can be added to by the community and kept as a living, evolving tactica, that I update as people put forward ideas and the 6th edition meta changes.
Either way, its all down to the OP and community support as to what happens.
I would only use the tactic to get the Ethereal killed if im usign Shadowsun, without her LD bonus is just to damn risky.
What i did was i deployed as far away from the edge of the board and charged my Ethereal forward, if he doesnt get shot, then he's in hand to hand soon.
Frankly i dont see how we can win against most armies if we don tuse this, having preferred enemy is pretty damn good.
I did point a tactic for keeping suits alive a bit longer, take a shield and a gun drone, place the shield drone in front and gun dron behind it and Suits behind the Gun Drone. With the new woudn alocation because of the difference in armor saves the Shield Drone can absorb all the shots until it dies, and then it jumps to the Gun drone until It dies, Then it jumps to the Suits. I used it and it worked pretty damn well, do the same with the Broadsides, 2+ save Shield Drone taking all the shots coming at them.
Fire warriors is the way to go, yeah they suck at most evrything else, But they do have a pretty good gun, and with Preferred Enemy they work great. 12 FW with a Shas'ui with a BS is only 133 points, thats pretty damn good if u ask me, they come with a 4+ save as well. Give them Shadowsun LD 10 bubble and have 48 of them shoot at one unit rerolling 1s to hit and 1s to wound, they are gonna put the hurting on anything.
While your FWs are reducing that 30 large Mob of Orks to nothing, have your suits shoot light vehicles, or anything else thats in range.
Move and shoot, use cover, no need to stay stationary, use the Broadsides to go after vehicles that the missile pods from the suits cant hurt..btw, i still think that Plasma rifle - Missile Pods is the way to go with Suits, give tem them Multi tracker to shoot both guns at the same time, if preferred enemy is in place...all your hits are pretty much gonna wound since you can rerrol those 1s you might get when wounding.
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