Long range penalties for Pistols and Thrown Weapons ?.?

[Lorcryst]

I distinctly remember that in 6th and 7th ed Pistols and Thrown Weapons had a special rule saying that they ignored long range penalties, but I cannot find such a rule in 8th ed ... did I miss someting in the book or FAQ ?

I ask this because that would meand that my friend's Dwarf Longbeard Rangers with Throwing Axes would get a -2 To Hit penalty when doing a Stand and Shoot charge reaction ... -1 for SS, -1 for range, meaning they would need 6+ to hit ... with the range of 6 inches of those axes, I'll either be outside their maximum shooting range when I start my charge (thus meaning that the shots would be resolved at the maximum range of the shortest-ranged weapon in the unit), or well within my Movement stat, meaning they wouldn't be able to Stand and Shoot in the first place ...

Thus meaning that the Throwing Axes upgrade for Warrior/Longbeard Rangers is mostly useless ...

[Scalebug]

No, there is no "no long range penalty" for pistols and thrown weapons, the have "Quick to fire" meaning there is no penalty for moving and shooting, and they can stand and shoot even if the enemy starts within their M distance, but you do get the -1 for long range shots.

[Lorcryst]

Hmmm ... Quick to Fire says nothing else, so I suppose the normal -1 To Hit of the Stand and Shoot charge reaction applies too ?

[Scalebug]

Hmmm ... Quick to Fire says nothing else, so I suppose the normal -1 To Hit of the Stand and Shoot charge reaction applies too ?

It does. Always being able to stand and shoot and no panalty for moving and firing (note that you don't get to march and fire though, that is a property you get from being Skirmisher or Fast Cavalry, not your weapon being Quick to fire).

In general though, you cannot really expect stand and shoot to be something to hang your strategy on... it is a nice bonus occasionally, but not what you are paying for. If you think that, you are bound for dissapointment.

[Lorcryst]

It does. Always being able to stand and shoot and no panalty for moving and firing (note that you don't get to march and fire though, that is a property you get from being Skirmisher or Fast Cavalry, not your weapon being Quick to fire).

In general though, you cannot really expect stand and shoot to be something to hang your strategy on... it is a nice bonus occasionally, but not what you are paying for. If you think that, you are bound for dissapointment.

Errr, forgot to type a few words, let me rephrase that : Quick to Fire says nothing else about the Stand and Shoot modifier ... so yes, they can always Stand and Shoot even if I have a charging unit 1 inch away, yes they can move and shoot (but not march), so the question is, for Throwing Axes on Longbeard Rangers : do they get the -1 To Hit penalty for Stand and Shoot on top of the -1 To Hit penalty if the enemy is farther away than 3 inches (long range) ?

[Tuttivillus]

Errr, forgot to type a few words, let me rephrase that : Quick to Fire says nothing else about the Stand and Shoot modifier ... so yes, they can always Stand and Shoot even if I have a charging unit 1 inch away, yes they can move and shoot (but not march), so the question is, for Throwing Axes on Longbeard Rangers : do they get the -1 To Hit penalty for Stand and Shoot on top of the -1 To Hit penalty if the enemy is farther away than 3 inches (long range) ?

Yes, they do.

[Lorcryst]

Ok, thank you guys ... now I just have to break the bad news to my Dwarf-playing friend (those two things make Throwing Axes on Rangers basically useless ... hitting on 6's, ouchie).

[Wesser]

Ok, thank you guys ... now I just have to break the bad news to my Dwarf-playing friend (those two things make Throwing Axes on Rangers basically useless ... hitting on 6's, ouchie).

Well if on Longbeard Rangers they hit with STR 5, so they're hardly useless. In fact, beware of that

[The bearded one]

While they will virtually always need 6's to hit, because stand&shoot and longrange penalties indeed both aply (but they can always stand and shoot regardless of the distance the enemy is at) a horde of them is throwing 20 axes, which is quite nasty. A devilishly hurtful trick is to use a horde of longbeard rangers with throwing axes and the rune of slowness on their banner, maybe even a thane with the master rune of challenge to force a charge, and then throw 20 axes when the enemy charges. If you force the charge at a decently lengthy range, the rune of slowness (minus D6" from the enemy's charge distance) will make them fail the charge. If the enemy stranded about 9 inch or less away, the rangers can move up and throw their axes, on 5's this time, before standing and shooting a 2nd time and throwing 20 axes yet again.

I used it once with a horde of 50; unseated a third of a unit of cold one knights

[Harwammer]

Yea, the good thing about failed charges is you always get to stand and shoot, regardless of if the enemy never gets into range. Rune of Slowness is FUN.

[Lorcryst]

According to my Dwarf playing friend, anything that uses BS with penalties is useless, because they don't hit ...

I don't agree with that, and I've suffered with those S5 Throwing Axes, but since I told him they had range penalties, he removed them from his lists (all the better for me).