Formations for our models?

[murgel2006]

With the new "remove the nearest" rule together with the range by model and a few other things, will there suddenly be a need to know about formations?

Assaulting troops seem to need to be assaulting in a broad front or a half circle to the side of lines etc.
Leap frog advances within a unit, new flamer (on model no problem, but two need to be carefull placed with in the Unit etc.

What do you think, formation seems to have become a VERY important thing.

[Latro_]

Sticking a really durable character right at the front is gonna be the norm.

[Lord Cook]

Vehicle formations will be important for squadrons, particularly as they reform into new formations as the lead vehicle takes damage.

Wasn't range always calculated by model?

[Gaargod]

No.

As long as a model was in range of the enemy when To Hit rolls were made, he is considered to be in range for the duration of the shooting attack, even if the removal of casualties means that the closest model now lies out of range

BRB p. 16.

Vehicle formations are indeed very important. If you take 2 hull points of damage, you can rotate that tank to the back so it can keep going.


As for normal formations... it's going to be complicated. You can indeed put an extra durable model at the front - but, because of the way mixed saves works, you can't use their armour save then bounce wounds backwards with look out sir. You can LoS the wounds, but that means you don't use his saves.

You have to start thinking about how efficient it actually is. Yes, I can stick a Wolf Guard with TDA in front of a grey hunter unit. He costs me a minimum of 33pts though, so over twice the price of 2 Grey Hunters. At Ap4 he only absorbs twice the damage, and at Ap1/2 he's only on 5++. Ap3 is a large survivability jump, but even then it's still not that difficult to fail a 2+. Plus, he means no rhino/razorback transport and no sweeping advancing. It's really debatable whether that's an actual buff, and that's one of the cheaper and more easily available meat-shields.

[Enigma6]

The best meat sheild are 2+ save independent characters, as they get 2+ LoS when u need it and they pack more wounds to keep surviving for longer.

HOWEVER you only get 2 ICs per 1999pts or army and they cost a LOT of points, so only 2 squads in the army are protected. Plus the best ones are the combat characters as they have the extra wound (plus meat shielding is better in combat), and that means no Librarian equivelants.

How many Captains did u see in space marine armies in 5th? The reason is that support characters are often a better choice. There is also the fact that the most readily available 2+ is TDA which come with several drawbacks, as mentioned above.

I think that 2+ leaders will see a lot of use at first while everyone tries out the new and shiny but it will wear off a bit as time goes on.

It won't go away, by any stretch, but I doubt we'll ever see an army where every squad has a 2+ meat sheild in it.

[7150]

The rules state that if you have mixed armor saves in a unit, you must allocate wounds before taking saving throws. LoS is performed when the wound is allocated, therefore if you transfer a wound to a normal member of the unit, the wound is saved on their armor, not the characters. You can't lead a formation with with a 2+ save character and take 2+ saves on wounds allocated towards other models.

[Ruination Drinker]

+2 armor save is so last edition, you need a ++3 Storm Shield this season to stay in fashion with all the plas spam we'll be seeing! Pedro lists are just freaking immortal! Seeing that 2 Sternguard Vets can take Plasma Guns per squad and the rest can take Combi-Plas, I'm thinking that marines are going to bypass this part of the meta.

I just wished that KMB's were more reliable, my choppa boys are going to have to mutate into shoota boys this edition.

[Vsurma]

The rules state that if you have mixed armor saves in a unit, you must allocate wounds before taking saving throws. LoS is performed when the wound is allocated, therefore if you transfer a wound to a normal member of the unit, the wound is saved on their armor, not the characters. You can't lead a formation with with a 2+ save character and take 2+ saves on wounds allocated towards other models.

The point is to put the 2+ save IC in the front, take non ap2 saves on the character and pass the ap1-2 saves onto the team on your LOS.

This works best with 3 wound characters as you WILL fail some 2+ saves sooner or later. Once you are down to 2 wounds you need to start being careful.

Still, as has been mentioned you will have at best 2 of these characters so the tactic while possible won't be common in squads.

[Lord Cook]

Gaargod - Ah, I thought he meant when shooting starts, during that initial range check. Cheers.

[Chief Librarian Zypher]

The rules state that if you have mixed armor saves in a unit, you must allocate wounds before taking saving throws. LoS is performed when the wound is allocated, therefore if you transfer a wound to a normal member of the unit, the wound is saved on their armor, not the characters. You can't lead a formation with with a 2+ save character and take 2+ saves on wounds allocated towards other models.

under the mixed save rule you do the wounds one at a time to the closest model. do the steps on page 15 in order until their are no more wounds left. don't forget though that the shooter allocates what wounds you gotta start saving from first reference to different str/ap types.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

Another benefit of the IC-leader is simply being able to allocate the LOS! wounds where you like, rather than closest-by-closest.

[koran]

A 2+ save on an independent character is very nice for the options it gives, even if it is just to be able to do wound shenanigans on a 2+ LoS. The TDA causing issues is a draw back (no transport rhino/razorback and no cutting down units) which (along with the sudden decrease in things that ignore a 2+ save in CC) leads me to think that artificer armour will see much more of a showing in the future.