Mind shackle scrabs and hammer of wrath

[brittom99]

Have been wondering how these two rules interact. As HoW is done at I10, doe that mean the effected creature makes his attacks at I10? Also as he has effectively two different attacks in that sub-phase, does he attack twice with MSS? Or as the HoW is not part of the normal CC, does it still work regardless of MSS!
As a Nid player with lots of MC'S who all get HoW I am hoping it is the latter argument.

[Mr_Rose]

A model unit by MSS gives up all their attacks. I reckon that includes bonus attacks too.

[Sami]

HoW is a bonus attack made at I10. MSS trigger before this attack is made, so if you fail the Ld test you won't get to HoW as instead of attacking normally (normally in this case would be HoW and I10 followed by normal attacks at Iwhatever) you follow the MSS attacking rules.

As for whether the MSS will be at I10 or Inormal, as you are no longer able to make a HoW attack, you don't get any benefit of I10. The I10 applies to the HoW attack only.

[brittom99]

That's where it does not make a lot of sense as HoW is meant to be from the furious impact into combat. So if MSS removes it, then it suggest the scrabs effect the attack prior to his charge. From a fluff poi t of view it makes no sense at all.

[brittom99]

Also it's not a bonus attack, it is an auto hit.

[Sami]

Didn't realise it was an auto-hit actually, so thank you for that.

MSS happen at the start of the fight sub-phase. Before you get to striking at I order you have the "choose a combat" step, which implies that the start of the fight sub-phase isn't immediately resolving I10 attacks. So technically you would roll for MSS before you start picking which combats to resolve first. If the test was failed, the attacks would then be made when the combat involving those models is resolved.

That's where it does not make a lot of sense as HoW is meant to be from the furious impact into combat. So if MSS removes it, then it suggest the scrabs effect the attack prior to his charge. From a fluff poi t of view it makes no sense at all.

Fluff has very, very little to do with how the rules actually work. Yes, plasma siphon is a notable exception.

[Mr_Rose]

From a floff PoV it's dead easy to justify; the poor sucker descended into a clod of nanites that disrupted his control of his descent and caused him to land off target on their way to melting his brain. Bam, no more bonus hit.

But yeah, what Sami said: fluff and what the rules actually say are seldom as strongly bound together as some people might want and "but that doesn't make sense!" has never been justification enough to simply ignore a rule without prior agreement.

[Thanatos_elNyx]

Fluff has very, very little to do with how the rules actually work. Yes, plasma siphon is a notable exception.

Have a look at what GK count as Daemons.