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Thread: Dealing with Vendettas (and other flyers)

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    Chapter Master Mojaco's Avatar
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    Dealing with Vendettas (and other flyers)

    Hello. So, 6th came out and gave Vendetta's a much needed boost...

    The Vendetta used to be a seriously undercosted unit, that you couldn't blame people for using as it's a very pretty model, but it could be killed like any skimmer.

    Now it got;
    + the ability to fire all weapons when moving over 6" (by a healthy margin)
    + Free 5+ cover save, or + 4+ cover if it wants it
    + When flying, can only be hit on a 6s
    + When flying, invunerable to close combat
    + If flying doesn't work out, just switch back to hovering
    + AP2 on lascannons got better at killing vehicles
    + Come in from reserves on a 3+ in turn two
    + It's targets get worse cover saves then before

    That's a big juicy list. A drawback it has is that mech might become less common, so lascannons will sometimes have to shoot infantry, t4(5) models can't be instakilled, and t5+ models with FNP will keep their 5+ FNP save.

    But how to deal with this, and flyers in general? The reason I pick out the Vendetta is that it can fairly easily take out any Skyfire platform you might have, especially as it usually comes in numbers and is easily the most undercosted of all flyers.

    I know a general answer isn't available, as different armies have different solutions. But perhaps someone knows something incredibly smart to make me feel less bad about having to face even more of these things (allies...). I want to love 6th, but stuff like this holds me back...

    (for fairness sake: Among my armies I also have one guard army with two vendettas, so I too tasteth the cheeseth. But fight fire with fire is not the route I prefer)
    Last edited by Mojaco; 04-07-2012 at 22:13.
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    Chapter Master NixonAsADaemonPrince's Avatar
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    If it's in Flyer mode as I'd reckon it often will be due to the increased survivability, Deep Striking units with plenty of shots to take advantage of that AV10 rear armour is what I'm thinking (I'm thinking a GK Strike Squad with Psybolt Ammo and 2 Psycannons, they have a reasonable chance of Destroying it or at least stopping if firing for a turn).

    And FYI, AP2 hasn't gotten any better if you disregard Hull Points (As that makes all things better) as the Damage Table has been knocked down a notch
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    Lord Solar MarCookius Lord Cook's Avatar
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    Re: Dealing with Vendettas (and other flyers)

    The Telekinesis psychic school is pretty god against lightly armoured vehicles that are hard to hit (like flyers). Both Crush and Objuration Mechanicum auto-hit after passing the psychic test, and stood a reasonable (or very good, for the latter) chance of knocking off hull points.

    Vendettas are pretty resistant to Crush, but that's due to them being very highly armoured compared to most flyers. Objuration will certainly murder Vendettas in squadrons.

  4. #4

    Re: Dealing with Vendettas (and other flyers)

    For hardcore rules lawyers, Ork Trukks w/ Gripping Klaws weren't FAQed to omit flyers. You know what that means?

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    Chapter Master NixonAsADaemonPrince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iskandar View Post
    For hardcore rules lawyers, Ork Trukks w/ Gripping Klaws weren't FAQed to omit flyers. You know what that means?
    You disgusting person
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    I think all UM flyers should be covered by a new special rule called: Whooshing machines live longer with Calgar...

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    Chapter Master Mojaco's Avatar
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    Re: Dealing with Vendettas (and other flyers)

    There are answers available to deal with one, maybe two, but with 9 being feasable (squadrons are hardly a drawback now, as it always had extra armour anyway) I think there's no reliable approach. The sideboard discussion elsewhere on Warseer raised some interesting points; perhaps the time has come that an all-comers list is just no longer possible.

    I have a big preference for infantry armies, and if playtesting reveals that they're perfectly capable again, I suppose that'll be my defense; just have so many guys that some lascannons hardly matter.
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    Re: Dealing with Vendettas (and other flyers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskandar View Post
    For hardcore rules lawyers, Ork Trukks w/ Gripping Klaws weren't FAQed to omit flyers. You know what that means?
    You disgusting person
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  8. #8

    Re: Dealing with Vendettas (and other flyers)

    Not justs gripping klaws...bomb squigs too.

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    Chapter Master Mandragola's Avatar
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    Re: Dealing with Vendettas (and other flyers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojaco View Post
    Hello. So, 6th came out and gave Vendetta's a much needed boost...
    Thanks for that. Made me smile.

    Flyers don't have Jink unless they evade, and only fire snap shots the following turn.

    My approach has been to buy two vendettas. Fight flyers with flyers. My GKs are now allies for an imperial guard army. Yay! Also, I have a lord commissar with a bod of 50 guys to soak wounds and either a quad gun or an icarus lascannon. Unsure which I'll go for in the end.

    Flying MCs ought to be a good way to deal with flyers, but actually they just aren't. I'm pretty sure that you can't smash as part of a vector strike, so flyrants and harpies aren't really strong enough.

    Orks may have silly things that work against flyers but their own flyers are not really up to the job. S6 isn't enough, and armour 10 is very bad.

    The ordinary Valk is pretty fun too. Missile pods, a multi laser and one of its door heavy bolters can be fired at once, which is quite scary for infantry. But it competes for a slot with a vendetta.

    One answer to valks is definitely to field units that just don't care about them. Guard infantry for example, or nobz bikers. Valks don't claim objectives, or even contest them, so ignore them. Sort of easier said...

  10. #10

    Re: Dealing with Vendettas (and other flyers)

    I'm thinking an allied bubba-ho-tep, err Imhotep is the answer to my CSM flyer problems, and a lot of other parking lot problems.

  11. #11

    Re: Dealing with Vendettas (and other flyers)

    Volume of fire. Ork lootas decimate flyers because they only miss half their shots vs flyers. Also, the key to beating flyers is to go second. They have to drop contents sometime and then you just punch them in the face. 9 vendetta are nasty, but they have to claim objectives and get out at some point. My orks have at 1500 pts see squads of massive size on the board. You will see flyer armies unable to kill everyone.
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    Re: Dealing with Vendettas (and other flyers)

    Did the OP really say, 'a much needed boost'? They were one of the most complained about things in the IG Codex, they needed no boost, and now they've gotten even more powerful.

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    Re: Dealing with Vendettas (and other flyers)

    I think he was being sarcastic...

    I honestly don't know what I am going to do to deal with them as a Space Wolf who staunchly does not want allies. While zooming can they fire to full effect at ground targets?
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    Librarian Ruination Drinker's Avatar
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    Re: Dealing with Vendettas (and other flyers)

    Wait, so grabbing klaws can insta kill a flyer by preventing it to move its minimum move...

    Where's the rules lawyering here? If it hasn't been FAQ'd it sounds pretty cut and dry then.

  15. #15

    Re: Dealing with Vendettas (and other flyers)

    As long as they have sight of them, sure. If you stay near the center of the board it's pretty difficult for flyers to get more than a two turns of fire before having to disappear (and that's with only being able to start firing turn 2). If they opt to hover for more turns of fire, they're vulnerable to shooting and assaults, and hull points make them vulnerable to glances. And if he goes min ground troops, you could potentially gib him for an early win.

    Plus, since most game types require troops on the ground, there's only so much those planes can do before their squishy insides have to pile out. If you're not spamming MSU armor, there's only so much damage 3 lascannons can do a turn.

    I'm really not too concerned about planes overall. My group has house ruled a nerf for Vendettas and Valks - but that was at the request of the Air Cav Guard player. He hated that they had Skyfire, which made a troop transport gunship into a better air superiority fighter than the Thunderbolt. So that's gone for us.

  16. #16

    Re: Dealing with Vendettas (and other flyers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruination Drinker View Post
    Wait, so grabbing klaws can insta kill a flyer by preventing it to move its minimum move...

    Where's the rules lawyering here? If it hasn't been FAQ'd it sounds pretty cut and dry then.
    I spoke about it just tonight in GW with a somewhat smug guy whose jaw dropped and then, in a smug way, declared that he'd call shenanigans if that was used. Guess he didn't see the funny side...

  17. #17

    Re: Dealing with Vendettas (and other flyers)

    Hmm. Are trukks tall enough to get within 2" of a flier? I'm pretty sure battlewagons are...
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  18. #18

    Re: Dealing with Vendettas (and other flyers)

    It's funny you should say that as I was thinking of making an Ork trukk conversion with a giant net made of shardnets and other odds and sods (like one of those mobile cranes). Either that or an Ork Bombardment Balloon WWI/II style. Would fit quite well with the Biplaned Dakkajets I have in mind...

  19. #19
    Chapter Master FraustyTheSnowman's Avatar
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    Re: Dealing with Vendettas (and other flyers)

    He can call shenanigans all he wants. It's what the rules say. House rules are all fine and good, and that's one option, but the actual rules are very clear on the issue. Just like Epidemius...a lot of people don't like it, but that doesn't make it illegal.
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  20. #20

    Re: Dealing with Vendettas (and other flyers)

    Oh aye. I generally tend to avoid nerd litigation. If people are overly anal about a particular rule then I certainly won't be facing them again.

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