Dealing with Vendettas (and other flyers)

[Sabe]

And FYI, AP2 hasn't gotten any better if you disregard Hull Points (As that makes all things better) as the Damage Table has been knocked down a notch

Untrue. In relative terms(which are the only ones that matter here) they got better compared to any weapon AP3 or lower. Many of which were notable anti-vehicle weapons (Autocannons, Psyflemen, Missile Launchers, Assault Cannons, etc.)

[Ruination Drinker]

It's funny you should say that as I was thinking of making an Ork trukk conversion with a giant net made of shardnets and other odds and sods (like one of those mobile cranes). Either that or an Ork Bombardment Balloon WWI/II style. Would fit quite well with the Biplaned Dakkajets I have in mind...

I'm thinking of making butterfly nets for mine!

As for the ruling, if it isn't addressed in v 1.1 then I guess that's a tacit approval!

[blameless]

I'm thinking of making butterfly nets for mine!

As for the ruling, if it isn't addressed in v 1.1 then I guess that's a tacit approval!

I hope they keep it! It's a stylish and very Orky way of dealing with flying stuff! So funny!

[Infidel]

Untrue. In relative terms(which are the only ones that matter here) they got better compared to any weapon AP3 or lower. Many of which were notable anti-vehicle weapons (Autocannons, Psyflemen, Missile Launchers, Assault Cannons, etc.)

It's a matter of perspective.

AP 3 and higher weapons have definately received a nerf, but the hull point system means they can wreck vehicles just as reliably. AP2 and AP1 weapons are a bit better at destroying vehicles outright. In terms of pure mechanic, if you disregard HP, AP2 weapons are exactly as good as they were before at killing vehicles outright.

[123simon]

I'm thinking of making butterfly nets for mine!

As for the ruling, if it isn't addressed in v 1.1 then I guess that's a tacit approval!

This will be a good way to destroy flyers, however can truckk take grabbin` klaws?

[Ruination Drinker]

This will be a good way to destroy flyers, however can truckk take grabbin` klaws?

Now that I have checked the codex... no

But I guess that will help make this sideways interpretation stick a little more. Only slow Battlewagons can threaten flyers with Grabin Klaws.

[Iskandar]

Now that I have checked the codex... no

But I guess that will help make this sideways interpretation stick a little more. Only slow Battlewagons can threaten flyers with Grabin Klaws.

Looted Wagons can, for 40 points of lol.

[Kevlar]

I'm thinking of making butterfly nets for mine!

As for the ruling, if it isn't addressed in v 1.1 then I guess that's a tacit approval!

Could model a big spongebob on top. Although I guess then it would be a jellyfish net.

[Gaargod]

Looted Wagons can, for 40 points of lol.

Stick a Wrekkin' Ball on top for 50pts total. That way you're down to 4+ Insta-Kill and/or 4+ S9 hit.

Wow, excepting Lootas who are just amazing, that's surely got to be a must-take for cheapness and effectiveness? Screw extra guns!

[Theocracity]

Leave it to Orks to turn construction equipment into anti-air power .

[ColShaw]

I reckon I'll deal with flyers through sheer volume of fire. Bring It Down to twin-link Autocannons (or Lascannons) and I can get a few hits a turn. I expect I can shoot a few out of the sky.

[Asymmetric]

I reckon I'll deal with flyers through sheer volume of fire. Bring It Down to twin-link Autocannons (or Lascannons) and I can get a few hits a turn. I expect I can shoot a few out of the sky.

I think pure massed infantry lists (like you are prone to field) are probably the hardest counters to someone just spamming fliers.

1) Most of the most lethal fliers are designed to fight mech. Scythes and Vendettas really won't kill too much infantry. 3 twinlinked lascannons or twinlinked tesla destructor arcs might seem impressive but against infantry with a cover save your going to take all day to kill a blob.

2) Most fliers are short ranged. Vendetta's aren't, but Valkyries/Ork/Necron/Space Marine flyers are meant to close with there enemy. That means there going to place themselves within rapid fire range or even melta range, placing them in significant danger.

3) Fliers don't start firing until at best turn 2 and come in on a 3+ (unless modified). You need to be doing damage to a horde of infantry ASAP to cull its numbers.

4) Fliers cannot score nor can they deny objectives. In addition, fliers cost more than most transports, which means there is even less points available for actually troops than other mech lists. If they cannot do enough damage (and they shouldn't be able to against a horde) then they will very likely lose an objective games.

5) No retreat wounds have gone. The reason why this is important is because some fliers, like stormravens, may simply be a delivery system for assault troops. It will take more than 1 elite assault squad to fight its way through a horde of infantry now.



I think foot Guard, foot Orks and foot Necrons can all give heavy flier based lists a serious headache for these reasons. Not sure about foot Marine/Chaos/Tau/Tyranid/Eldar. Foot shooty dark eldar might be interesting.

[madival]

Quick question. How will flyer armies deal with nid/ork hordes ? At anything above 1000 points. You could.easily see 150+ models on the board for these armies. I don't even field a horde heavy army and My force is almost 100 strong at 1500 and thats with nob bikers, 2 10 man loota squads and a squad of storm boys. necron flyer force suffers from bad troops. they are small and unsupported. Guard flyers just.cant lay out enough.hurt.

[Gaargod]

Meh, the Necron armies that you really fear are going to be deathblob based or ghost ark warriors + wraiths, I think. Ghost Arky warriors can lay down a lot of hurt and are remarkably resistant, whilst wraiths punch stuff in combat. The problem really comes when they add in, say, 2 doomscythes or a couple of nightscythe-transported Immortals (possibly as the aforementioned deathblob). Not a lot you can do about them.

But yeah, it's a real problem for flyer-spam armies that, point for point, they suck at killing hordes. Foot Guard armies have enough firepower to blow them out of the 6, sixes be damned (and hydras). Orks, oddly enough, will have probably the least problems against flyers of anyone ("Say hello to my little friend" Lootas and "Construction Kits" Looted Wagons of anti-air lol) and if they're spamming 30 man squads of shoota boys, they don't care anyway. Nids... Well, Nid hordes still kinda suck (pts/model is not great and their synapse is vulnerable).

But do you know who does care about flyers? Elite armies. In other words, most marine armies (not Black Tide), as well as obviously quite a few xenos. If you're only putting 40 models down on the board, losing 5 of them to a deadly beam of deadly death (or whatever the crap the Doomscythe wields) is much more painful.

[Infidel]

Meh, the Necron armies that you really fear are going to be deathblob based or ghost ark warriors + wraiths, I think. Ghost Arky warriors can lay down a lot of hurt and are remarkably resistant, whilst wraiths punch stuff in combat. The problem really comes when they add in, say, 2 doomscythes or a couple of nightscythe-transported Immortals (possibly as the aforementioned deathblob). Not a lot you can do about them.

But yeah, it's a real problem for flyer-spam armies that, point for point, they suck at killing hordes. Foot Guard armies have enough firepower to blow them out of the 6, sixes be damned (and hydras). Orks, oddly enough, will have probably the least problems against flyers of anyone ("Say hello to my little friend" Lootas and "Construction Kits" Looted Wagons of anti-air lol) and if they're spamming 30 man squads of shoota boys, they don't care anyway. Nids... Well, Nid hordes still kinda suck (pts/model is not great and their synapse is vulnerable).

But do you know who does care about flyers? Elite armies. In other words, most marine armies (not Black Tide), as well as obviously quite a few xenos. If you're only putting 40 models down on the board, losing 5 of them to a deadly beam of deadly death (or whatever the crap the Doomscythe wields) is much more painful.

Pretty spot on analysis sir. Although just to add you can add a pair of heavy bolter to a vendetta for some resonable anti-infantry shooting.

I'm of the opinion that hybrid necron lists make for the best list. Ghost ark with warriors and stormtek is so strong it'd be retarded to not use them. I feel delegating Doomscythe as a support role (there's always high value target for you to kill, unless it's a 100% horde list) is probably best. The 3 of them cost you 525pt, the warrior sqaud about 200 each, then add some Wraiths and Bargelords for CC heavy lifting.

The exact balance between Scythes and other heavy options depend on the meta, but I do think that all flyer spam list would be great at dealing dispropotionate amounts of damage but isn't actually great at winning games.