Dragons cold blooded?

[TheDungen]

How come dragons arent cold blooded they are giant reptiles? And is there any relation between them and the great beasts of lustria like terradons or carnosaurs?

[Urgat]

Well, it's not because they're giant lizards that they have to be cold-blooded. More and more paleontologists think dinosaurs were actually warm-blooded, after all. Other than that, I suppose the idea of a cold-blooded creature breathing fire won't mesh well. I think the 5th ed LM book said they weren't related, but I might be remembering something else, so don't quote me on that.

[Ultimate Life Form]

Are Dragons giant reptiles? I'm not sure you can present scientific proof of that claim...

In the strict biological sense Birds are an Order of feathered Dinosaurs. Birds warm-blooded, Dinosaurs ... lets's say 'debatable' ... in any case, Birds are essentially advanced Reptiles (as we are as well by the way). Since it would seem that Dragons are also quite advanced (and possibly magically augmented), it is no stretch to say it is at least not unreasonable to believe they should be warm blooded.

In case my cryptozoology fails me here there is also a concept mass homoiothermy which basically means when your body mass exceeds a certain point it is almost impossible to become entirely hypothermic; the body's core temperature will always remain at a certain level thanks to the heat produced by the normal bodily functions. And if anything dragons are BIG.

It is worth noting that Dragons are described as the 'original inhabitants of the Warhammer world' (along with dragon Ogres strangely) and were forced into hibernation in the snowy wastes when the Old Ones arrived and decided to start a global greenhouse effect in the literal sense. Their dislike of warmer temperatures seems to imply that they're not very good at adapting to climate change and also lack means to regulate their body heat in an efficient manner; both of which would be traits usually ascribed to a cold blooded metabolism. This however goes against the notion that they prefer lower temperatures; a condradiction I have not been able to resolve to this point. Maybe it's just like bears who hibernate when it's too cold to be outside, only the dragons do it when it's too hot so it must not necessarily mean they're cold blooded. However since the dinosaurs of Lustria thrive in the hot climate, it can be assumed that their body chemistry differs quite a bit from the Dragons'. What this means in terms of relationship of the two I cannot say.

[Arnizipal]

How come dragons arent cold blooded they are giant reptiles? And is there any relation between them and the great beasts of lustria like terradons or carnosaurs?

Who says dragons aren't cold blooded creatures?

It is worth noting that Dragons are described as the 'original inhabitants of the Warhammer world' (along with dragon Ogres strangely) and were forced into hibernation in the snowy wastes when the Old Ones arrived and decided to start a global greenhouse effect in the literal sense. Their dislike of warmer temperatures seems to imply that they're not very good at adapting to climate change and also lack means to regulate their body heat in an efficient manner; both of which would be traits usually ascribed to a cold blooded metabolism. This however goes against the notion that they prefer lower temperatures; a condradiction I have not been able to resolve to this point. Maybe it's just like bears who hibernate when it's too cold to be outside, only the dragons do it when it's too hot so it must not necessarily mean they're cold blooded. However since the dinosaurs of Lustria thrive in the hot climate, it can be assumed that their body chemistry differs quite a bit from the Dragons'. What this means in terms of relationship of the two I cannot say.

Maybe dragons need to lose the excess heat they generate by breathing fire?
A cold blooded creature filled with fire would need a cold climat to keep its body temperature balanced.

[Ultimate Life Form]

That's an interesting point; also worth considering is that creatures who bear highly volatile and inflammable chemicals in theoir bodies probably instinctively want to avoid heat.

Another remotely connected point of debate would be that pretty much all laws of nature tell us a Dragon could impossibly fly by using just its wings alone. Some people suggest some kind of magic propulsion system, but that wouldn't account for Dragon species that are not intelligent enough to use Magic, and also I have to my knowledge never read any account that Warhammer Dragons would know Magic or be otherwise magically attuned save for Galrauch. Since Dragons existed before the Winds of Magic, this would also be logical.

Well the point of this is, other people have suggested Dragons have some kind of internal gas sacs/bladders which would aid their flight much like a fish's swim bladder. So what we are looking at may actually be a kind of organic Zeppelin. When they have internal gas (no pun intended), this could also easily be the source of their fire. Which means the gas is combustible. So it's likely Hydrogen. And this could easily explain why they shun the heat... Maybe I should call my Zombie Dragon Hindenburg!

[Urgat]

Another remotely connected point of debate would be that pretty much all laws of nature tell us a Dragon could impossibly fly by using just its wings alone. Some people suggest some kind of magic propulsion system, but that wouldn't account for Dragon species that are not intelligent enough to use Magic, and also I have to my knowledge never read any account that Warhammer Dragons would know Magic or be otherwise magically attuned save for Galrauch.

You're out of touch my friend Since SoM and Monstrous Arcanum, dragons can be spellcasters if they are emperor dragons (and up to lvl4 to boot). This implies dragons are attuned to magic naturally.

[Ultimate Life Form]

Oh well. Yeah, things change quite a bit lately, no?

[Urgat]

Well, that's a change I don't really mind. Warhammer dragons are supposed to be very intelligent and... how to say it? A kind of superior species. I like to think that dragons soar as much on the regular air as on the winds of magic, which is how they fly.

[Naanomi]

Dragons used magic before the coming of the Old Ones according to lore, not all of it recent. Zoats as well, and (depending on the version you accept) Firmir.

[TheDungen]

The 6th edition high elf war of the beard list had dragons that could be wizards if i remember correctly. There may also be other sources of magic in the world beside the winds of magic. Warpstone comming from morsilieb is an example i guess. And athel Loren could be another.

Are there any proven example of a warmblooded creature with scales? And I guessed they were not cold blooded since the were lacking the rule.
The creatures that exist wild in lustria like stegadons and carnosaurs were not spawned by the old ones so they could predate them. I dont know about the terradons.

[Arnizipal]

Warpstone comming from morsilieb is an example i guess. And athel Loren could be another.

Morrslieb got created when the gates collapsed. Same thing with Athel Loren.

And I guessed they were not cold blooded since the were lacking the rule.

The rule implies cold-bloodedness as a figure of speech (as Lizardmen feel little emotions).
I guess it's a bit confusing that lizardmen are litterally cold-blooded as well

[Spedgal]

Magic existed before the Gates were built on the world, in fact there is implication that the world was chosen to have the Gates of the Old Ones to begin with *because* it had some natural magic. Certainly there were spellcasters amongst the pre-Old-One populations, dragons included.

[Athelassan]

Dragons being able to use magic has a pretty long pedigree, it just makes it into the main rules relatively infrequently for game balance reasons.

[Lord Squidar]

The whole cold climate for dragons and lizardmen before the old ones came was a big biological booboo for GW, its the complete opposite of what it should be. There is no way to scientifically explain it, which is why we just have to hand wave the whole thing =) There are other examples, like skaven being cowardly and back stabbing each other (recently proved that rats are very empathetic and will save their own kind with no reward), stegadons and carnosaurs living in dense jungle (real life counterparts lived on savanna type terrain) etc etc.

[Naanomi]

Dragons are magic, so they can be cold adapted just fine. In fact, I would guess they lack the ability to regulate excess temperature that their body generates in addition to the higher temperature climate which requires them to 'sleep' all the time in heat-induced comas.

As for Lizardmen and Dinosaurs, I would think that both were native to the very narrow equatorial band on the original planet that had warm temperatures (fostered by Dragons as their servants if some of the lore in the novels is correct), and that the Old Ones expanded their natural territory (which was probably more 'savannah like') by adjusting the weather and expanding their habitable range (at the expense of other local cold-weather stuff)

[Soundwave]

Funny enough there is a bbc docco that illustrates dragons being a scientific reality.They are reptilian in appeal ,yet have a metabolism which is sustained by eating iron ore (hence the jewels within there gut) from very high mountains.Instead of any gas release (eg. farting/burping) they exude a highly flammable condensation,and form of protection being the breath weapon.(one hell of a phylactery)

[Urgat]

The silly one where it fights a T-rex?

[CommanderCax]

Other than that, I suppose the idea of a cold-blooded creature breathing fire won't mesh well.

Aren't Salamanders of Lustria not sort of breathing fire either? And they are cold-blooded for sure...

[Urgat]

You got a point. Are they really breathing fire though? On the 5th ed box cover, the stuff they spit looks kinda like fire, but it's all greenish and stuff. Well salamanders ARE supposed to be about fire though in usual fantasy settings.

[Soundwave]

Lol!The most common reason will be that lizardmen and dragons share a completely differing environment ,even if they are both reptiles!Otherwise heck dark elf cold one knights now have the cold blooded rule!