Mordheim Revenants/Skeletons

[joebloggs1987]

Just a homebrew warband i have been working on, looking for some constructive criticism/advice on them.

Revenants and Skeletons

http://www.scribd.com/doc/99500257/Revenants-1

Just trying to think of some ideas for a bit of 'flavour', some cool items/weapons/skills or something.

Slight update... http://www.scribd.com/doc/99562849/Revenants-2

[Nymie_the_Pooh]

This is just a quick look without actually trying anything out myself so is full of opinions with no information to back it up.

I think giving Fear and Poison Immunity is a good idea as it's pretty standard for undead. I'd have to see things in play to comment on the No Flesh rule. I would probably drop Leadership by 1 for everyone. Skeletons in particular seem like they would do good with the same special rules as a zombie. Then again, having all henchmen not able to earn experience can be absolutely no fun so I'd change that to either normal experience gain or half gain. I don't know if I would go with most any stat higher than that of a Human unless the skeletons are meant to be better than standard henchmen that have died. I tend to picture standard Skeletons in the Warhammer setting as basically Humans with less free will/willpower (hence the suggestion for LD6) and special rules to represent their undead aspects. If they aren't mindless then having a Ld along the lines of Humans makes sense to me.

You have three Revenants with +1 S and T compared to the one Captain available to Humans with three special rules thrown in for 10gc less. They should probably be closer to eighty each going into play testing. The Revenant King is M+1, W -1, I+1, and Ld+2 compared to the Possessed for 10gc less. The problem with a direct comparison such as this is that a Possessed is not the model that the warband depends on for leadership tests. Then again, with the high leadership values of the revenants it's not like they will depend much on the King for Leadership tests outside of bottle checks. A Vampire is probably a better place to look for balance in this instance and there the difference is M-1, BS-4, W-1, and Ld+1 for 30gc less. The special rules seem to even out. The problem here is that an Undead warband is pretty much done until they can replace a lost Vampire where the Remnants could operate much the same without the King should the King die. I would probably drop leadership to eight and boost cost up to 90gc here for testing because every other model in the army is self-sufficient to some extent and doesn't need the as there are three captains that can step in at any time. I think you can safely drop the cost of the Necromancer to 35gc unless having it at 40gc is a matter of fluff to reflect Remnants not having quite as easy access to magic as Undead for some reason.

Again, I haven't played this warband and would really need to see the No Flesh rule in play to say much about it. At first glance it appears you have created an elite warband at moderately trained prices.

[joebloggs1987]

Have made a few tweaks to costs, and added spells. If i get a chance ill upload the changes.

Any ideas on some cool items/weapons and skills?

[Nymie_the_Pooh]

A lot of that would depend on what you see their specialty as being, or if you even feel like they have one. Not all warbands need special items as it represents what is readily available where they originally hail from or may have training beyond the norm in. Skills work much the same way in that they represent things a warband is known for being efficient in even if that efficiency is truly only used by a couple of members. Is there a specific reason they want wyrdstone for instance? I don't imagine they are collecting it to sell for money.

[RJackel]

Well I havent play tested his warband because I dont even have time right now to playtest my own :P But honestly I wouldnt even if I had the time. For my sence its horribly broken. That you make heroes stronger and such would all be ok since wights kick ass but BS4 skeleton archers and WS4/S4 skeleton swordsman? I have played Vampire Counts for MANY years and Im guessing you havent? Skeletons arent that fancy :P For example Orcs and Beastman dont get S4 hencemen where as I see them beating a skeleton to a pulp in no time... Possessed get a S4 hencemen but its also WS2 which I think balances out nicely.

Personally I would make changes to the henchmen. Make 1 profile for skeletons but with WS2, BS2, S3 and I2 with no 0-5. Your warband already has horribly strong heroes in CC. Getting an extra bunch of excellent ranged henchmen doesnt fit in there. Also I dont recall ever even seeing a BS3 skeleton(in ANY warband or warhammer army) not to mention a BS4 one. They dont even have eyes to see with for crying out load! :P For weapons I wouldnt add to much and expecially no Longbows. You need a lot of strenght to fire one of those and I simply dont see it happening for the skeletons. My opinion is also that the Bows for these skeletons would be extra feat thing instead of something your strategy would revolve around. Something in the sence of putting a 2-3 behind your frontline(of also skellies) and firing 1 shot of before also charging in. All CC orientated warbands dont have access so such powerfull weapons as longbows. Further more I would make these henchmen no experience earning. They are dead... there is simply no "lamp" that will turn on in there to give them an idea :P

So then you would have your basic henchmen type ready. For the flavor you could then add a stronger skeleton type which would be more of an wight. So make it WS3, BS0, S4 and T3 OR make them S3 and T4. This group could ear exp at half rate, have only access to CC and be 0-5. If you would make them S4 AND T4 then it would be more 0-3 in my eyes...

Perhaps you could give some thought for a 3rd henchmen aswell?

As it stands right now I would never play against this warband. I think that you should for a moment pick up another warband and play a few games against the warband you created here. Hehe Id honestly dare you my left ball that even with a broken warband as Shadow Elves you wouldnt beat me :P Me being a person that has played Possessed and Beastman for a long time in Mordheim and Im completely familiar with CC warbands. I think the trap(and you have obvieusly falling in it) with making your own warband is that people want to much from it. Making them overpowered most of the time. They are afraid to lose and picturing themselfs fighting against their own creation is something that really puts perspective into it. Or perhaps not just picturing but actually doing it if youre not very experienced with Mordheim(which I dont think you are). Warbands that Ive made in the past were balanced out using this method.

Funny thing I saw in your original post is that you based your henchmen on henchmen from other warbands and then added the price a little. Where is the warband that has BS4 marksman and WS4 with S4 swordman? Please tell me because damn then Ive been playing the wrong warbands for years! :P :P :P And picking the best henchmen from different warbands isnt the same mate... Atm this is the All Stars team.

Last but not least, are your friends really ok with you playing this particulair list? Or are they all still new to the game so that they dont see exactly when a list is broken or not? Perhaps they havent seen it yet? In such a case expect a bitchslap from someone :P Most likely from the guy thats playing Dwarfs

[joebloggs1987]

For a start, i have made changes since the original post, ill post them up in a sec.
And yes, i am aware that they are not balanced as they are.
The idea was just something to throw out there to tweak, it is in no way a final copy, just a rough idea i had that needs modification.
The Skeletons definitely need changing from what they were in the original post.
Have been thinking about the possibility of skeleton dogs for henchmen.
And yes, i had a couple of games today so have an idea for a few changes i want to make.
Regarding experience with Mordheim, have played a few campaigns in the last few years, but only using Skaven.

[joebloggs1987]

Here is an update, still needs tweaking though...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/99500257/Revenants-1

[RJackel]

Hehe I glanced trough the list and its a difference of day and night with the original post above :P Ill have a better look today or tomorrow perhaps

[joebloggs1987]

Slight update...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/99562849/Revenants-2

[RJackel]

Hang on here for a moment. I noticed there are no fear causing units? Which means skeletons would be subject to fear themselfs and other stuff?...

[joebloggs1987]

Should i make them immune to fear? (seems logical i guess)

If so, should they cause fear? Or just be immune to it?

[joebloggs1987]

Updated

http://www.scribd.com/doc/99692573/Revenants-3