Overwatch with PSY powers

[nlive]

Warp Charge is generated at the start of every turn. You could use psychic powers in your opponents turn in fifth, and this hasn't changed in sixth.

That would be the forth time someone has had to point that out. Really wish people would read the thread.

-- When in danger or in doubt, run in circles scream and shout.

[Xandros]

That would be the forth time someone has had to point that out. Really wish people would read the thread.

-- When in danger or in doubt, run in circles scream and shout.

Or the rules.

Or just not assume that everything changed and fill in the missing details with guesswork.

The sky is falling! It never did before but it'll surely happen this time!

[Austinitor]

@Xandros: I take it they're running 5.1 Edition games in your area, too, with many of the new rules deleted? .

@nlive raises an excellent point, and it fits nicely with some of the prior mentions of powering force weapons in your opponent's turn.

[Xandros]

@Xandros: I take it they're running 5.1 Edition games in your area, too, with many of the new rules deleted? .

@nlive raises an excellent point, and it fits nicely with some of the prior mentions of powering force weapons in your opponent's turn.

I'm not at all contradicting Nlive, just adding to his point.

[Mr_Rose]

@Xandros: I take it they're running 5.1 Edition games in your area, too, with many of the new rules deleted? .

See, that 5.1 edition would be fine, it's the 4.8.25å edition games, with the optional 3e compatibility patch, that really suck.

[Chapters Unwritten]

An overwatch attacK is resolved like a normal shooting attack (Albeit one resolved in the enemy's assault phase).
Witchfire powers are manifested during the psyker's Shooting Phase instead of firing a weapon.

I never even doubted that you can't use Witchfire in overwatch. Its a clear no for me But I agree, I would have loved to toss a Warp Rift into the face of any unit charging my Librarian. Alas, it will never happen.

I'm with this guy. It's very obvious that, while you could fire the power, you cannot manifest it to have the attack available. Overwatch gives you permission to fire weapons, not to cast the powers. Shooting with a psychic power may count as firing an assault weapon, but before you can shoot it you have to test, which can't be done outside your shooting phase.

Besides. You guys don't think this would make a lot of the powers a little too good, defensively? The Lash rolls to hit, so by this argument you can lash a unit during their charge.

So many Easter Eggs, this poor bunny's cloaka must be the size of a grapefruit.

[Austinitor]

@Chapters Unwritten: again, there are Witchfire powers like Destructor that require neither a test nor Warp Charge (and there would be others, were it not for the rule barring Blast weapons from firing Snap Shots, or if Blast weapons had a Wall of Death style exception that allowed them to Snap Fire on Overwatch).

[DoctorTom]

It's very obvious that, while you could fire the power, you cannot manifest it to have the attack available. Overwatch gives you permission to fire weapons, not to cast the powers. Shooting with a psychic power may count as firing an assault weapon, but before you can shoot it you have to test, which can't be done outside your shooting phase.

Even the ones that not only require no warp charge or pyschic test (as Austinator points out), but are also defined in the Eldar FAQ as being "always on"? I would think it would be rather easy to use an "always on" power.

Besides. You guys don't think this would make a lot of the powers a little too good, defensively?

No, no I don't. You're limited to ones that require a ballistic score or are template weapons; that cuts down a lot. And, you couldn't even use template powers in a Death or Glory since it doesn't have the special template rule that Overwatch does. I didn't think it was too much when allowing people to use PSAs in a Death or Glory in earlier editions, and it's restricted more now.

The Lash rolls to hit, so by this argument you can lash a unit during their charge.

Do they still have the charge to manifest it? It would certainly be one way to stop a charge.

@Chapters Unwritten: again, there are Witchfire powers like Destructor that require neither a test nor Warp Charge (and there would be others, were it not for the rule barring Blast weapons from firing Snap Shots, or if Blast weapons had a Wall of Death style exception that allowed them to Snap Fire on Overwatch).

And, as I said, they defined the Warlock powers as being "always on" (even though it probably gets messy on the inside of a Wave Serpent when you stick the Warlocks in it )

[Murphey]

You've missed a bit mate. Read the section called "generating warp charge". 'a pysker automatically generates his full allocation of warp charge points at the start of every turn' page 66. How else are you going to use that force weapon in your opponents turn?

Wish you had read those 3 pages as it had already been covered.

Quite right. I really should've checked the rules more thoroughly, and read the previous posts more thoroughly. Consider my post withdrawn

[Adra]

I have to agree that I dont think Powers can be used in overwatch, but its a terrible shame as my lash of submission would have a right old laugh if it hit an assaulting unit and threw them back out of their own charge range.... :P

[skorczeny]

So it seems there is nearly a consensus that, with the possible exception of some Eldar FAQ abilities that are always on and require no powers checks or warp charges and use ballistic skill or wall of death (I'll give Eldar benefit of the doubt), Witchfire powers cannot be used in Overwatch for the following reasons:

An overwatch attacK is resolved like a normal shooting attack (Albeit one resolved in the enemy's assault phase).]Witchfire powers are manifested during the psyker's Shooting Phase instead of firing a weapon.

Shooting with a psychic power may count as firing an assault weapon, but before you can shoot it you have to test, which can't be done outside your shooting phase.

[Austinitor]

What @Chapters Unwritten has posted is not in the rules. There is no blanket prohibition on taking a psychic test as required to perform a Witchfire attack, and (I repeat) he is twisting what is written to try to support his preferred outcome (no psychic overwatch), which is a particularly weak argument (as has been shown on the thread re: applying the same logic to shooting).

[lantzkev]

This seems like a rehash of the Death or Glory Zoanathrope thread.

Death or Glory and psychic test thread from 5th

[SacredCow]

This seems like a rehash of the Death or Glory Zoanathrope thread.

Death or Glory and psychic test thread from 5th

It appears this debate has been carried over from the prior edition.

[lantzkev]

Boils down to the same semantics of weapon vs I think a PSA is a weapon.

[smileyface]

The thing I find weird about this is anyone feeling sure what the rule is or what the designers intent is. Having read through the thread and then the rules it the other day, I'm prepared to hold up my hands and admit I know neither. Which means this has been valuable, if only so I can have this conversation in a more easygoing mode at the start of every game: "Do you want shooting psychic powers to be able to overwatch? It isn't clear in the rules but I don't mind either way."

I do know why there's a problem though: there's a problem because the designers played it one way (I don't know which), and it seemed so obvious to them that it never occurred to them that someone would do it any other way or think it possible. After all, it would have taken exactly one sentence in either the overwatch or witchfire sections specifically referring to the problem to make this a non-issue.

[SacredCow]

Boils down to the same semantics of weapon vs I think a PSA is a weapon.

I believe it is more of a case of people lobbying that the language "counts as" is not the same as "is" which I find to be incredibly pedantic.

[Fle]

It seems the problem isn't limited to just overwatch and death or glory either. I posted a question on the forum a few days ago about the "Puppet Master" psychic power. Would a model under the effects of "Puppet Master" be able to manifest a "witchfire" for example?

[Infidel]

I personally think that whenever you can fire a weapon, you can manifest a psychic shooting attack, including Death or Glory/Puppet Master/Overwatch. But I won't be suprised if they ruled otherwise.

[DoctorTom]

This seems like a rehash of the Death or Glory Zoanathrope thread.

Death or Glory and psychic test thread from 5th

Yes, that's why I've made mention of this historically having been a problem. You'd think they'd have learned by now...