So. Axes. Hmmm...

[Spiney Norman]

Now let me turn your logic on it's head.

If a Chainfist cost the same as a Powerfist. Which one would you take?

Clearly the chain fist because you get something extra, on the other hand would I pay extra points to upgrade a power fist into a chain fist, almost certainly not because the advantage is too insignificant and too situational so make any real difference in most of the game I play. Just out of interest, if you were writing the rules, how many points would you charge to upgrade a power fist to a chain fist? 1pt, 2pts, more? There's no way I would consider paying more than 2 pts, and even then I probably wouldn't because it's not an upgrade I would make use of most of the time. There is no way I would pay 5 pts, especially in a meta where expensive, heavily armoured vehicles are getting shelved because they can be easily glanced to death.

There are only a handful of vehicles in the game that cannot be very easily penetrated by a power fist (Monolith and Landraider are about the only ones) because most vehicles are A10/11 on the back, and if your opponent allows your chainfist to catch up with his land raider he is an idiot.

[Yodhrin]

Why would you take a Frost axe when a Power axe is almost as good for the same role at less or no extra cost? Why pay for two different weapons when one will suffice for both roles and is more flexible i.e. power fist? People keep saying use them for different roles. Hopefully your enemy will be obliging and throw his forces at the correct weapon Vs his unit type or are you saying each squad should have one of each type of weapon at an even higher point cost.

Who's pretending. Can you point the post out. What are you talking about? Half of this thread acknowledges it is hard fact.

Frost Axe has +1 Str over a regular Power Axe, and +1 A over a Powerfist, so I'd take a Frost Axe: on characters I would have given a Power Axe but I had points to spare, on characters I intend to primarily send against regular infantry, on unit characters who will be challenging T3 enemy characters, or in any other situation where potential extra wounds are better than higher strength. Once again, the role exists, even if you don't like it.

As for who's pretending, and point the post out? Read the flipping thread mate, a good quarter or more is people claiming that Frost Axes are worthless, that anything they can do power fists do better, etc etc.

[Senbei]

how many points would you charge to upgrade a power fist to a chain fist? 1pt, 2pts, more? There's no way I would consider paying more than 2 pts, and even then I probably wouldn't because it's not an upgrade I would make use of most of the time.

Y'know.... Once-upon-a-time chain fists were Str 10 with the equivalent of ap1. I think they were that way for 2 editions. I'd give you at least 5 points for that (simply because even Str 8 is wounding almost everything on 2+).

[elmo23]

I want to re read the rule for Frost Axe 6ed again to compare to Powerfist, but I don't remember where it was.... lol.

Can somebody tell me where the 6ed Frost Axe is located? From codex space wolves, FA is only +1S power weapon, where does it say +2 S, AP1, I1????

Thanks

[hobojebus]

Page 3/7 of the FaQ in pink 3rd paragraph on the left under logan grimnar living legend change, And its Ap2 not 1.

[elmo23]

Page 3/7 of the FaQ in pink 3rd paragraph on the left under logan grimnar living legend change, And its Ap2 not 1.

ahhh yes... the FAQ... damn it... I forgot about that. Damn... wasted 30min looking all over the BRB 6ed.

[Narf]

meh having played a few games now my GH load out has changed

10 GH, power axe, MOTW.
TDA Wolf Guard chainfist
IC, frost sword (rune staff weapon if rune priest)

It may just be a space wolf thing but hidden Power axes in GH are rather nasty as they cannot be targeted by a challenge, and if a challenge is issued my WG can attempt to deck the challenger, or let the rune priest/wolf priest do it.

For my WG unit i now run the following

3 TDA WG, combi-melta, power axe
2 TDA WG, combi plasma, power sword
3 TDA WG, chainfists (since MB are 5 points, and 1 attack I1, a chainfist is 5pts more than a power fist I1 more attacks)

[Ragnar69]

I think a fist over a frost axe on a wolf lord is not a no brainer as some suggested. I've done a spreadsheet and the axe comes out better than expected if you get the extra attack for multiple CCW. Granted, it clearly loses vs. T4 multi-wound (without Eternal Warrior), but how many of those do we face? Marine and some Chaos ICs, GK Paladins, Tau Suits, some Tyranids and Ork Nobs. So only certain armies have them and 70%-99% of those armies are not T4 multiwound. It it also worse vs. T6+, but again, we only encounter a few models with such toughness.

They are en par vs. T5, the axe doing 0.11 less wounds in the first round of combat, but the same in the following rounds.

FNP is only an issue with T4 enemies, as vs. T3 the axe also ignores it and vs. T5+ the fist doesn't help either. The axes does 0.55 less wounds in round 1, but only 0.37 less in round 2+. If this is really a big handicap I don't know. I haven't played for years and I have no idea how many T4 models with FNP are running around these days. I know that Blood ANgels may take some, but how many or who else I don't know.

But the axe shines vs. T4 single wound without FNP and T3 models, doing 0.56 more wounds per turn as a fist. And I think most of the enemy models should have this profile, or am I wrong?

Edit: Wolf Guard Pack Leaders with Frost Axe/Pistol suffer even less vs. FNP and T6 models than a Wolflord and they are even better than a fist vs. T5 models !

Conclusion: the less base attacks you have, the better the axe gets compared to a fist as the additional attack from the pistols matters more than strenght.

[badguyshaveallthefun]

FNP is only an issue with T4 enemies, as vs. T3 the axe also ignores it and vs. T5+ the fist doesn't help either. The axes does 0.55 less wounds in round 1, but only 0.37 less in round 2+. If this is really a big handicap I don't know. I haven't played for years and I have no idea how many T4 models with FNP are running around these days. I know that Blood ANgels may take some, but how many or who else I don't know.

Forgive me, maybe I'm just missing something, but an axe only gives +1S and you're only base S4 right? How does S5 negate FNP on T3 models? Don't you have to be S6?

[Ragnar69]

Forgive me, maybe I'm just missing something, but an axe only gives +1S and you're only base S4 right? How does S5 negate FNP on T3 models? Don't you have to be S6?

I'm talking about Frost Axes, they are S+2. But I think even normal power axes are better than fists for A1 Grey Hunters/Blood Claws.