Lizardmen vs Bretonnia 2000 pts (game 2)

[macejase]

This evening I played my second 8th edition game using my new Lizardmen army. Me and my opponent are both new to this edition, our first game last week was documented in one of these reports. This will be an almost complete rematch, except for different setup and different spell lores after fixing a few mistakes in the original lists.


My army list:

Slann BSB (Life) 350
focus of mystery, focused rumination

Scar Veteran 100
light armour, enchanted shield, luck stone

11 Temple Guard 211
full command

20 Saurus Warriors 238
musician, standard

24 Skinks & 3 Kroxigor 285

2x 10 Skink Skirmishers 2x 80
Javelin & Shield

10 Chameleon Skinks 120

Stegadon 235

2x 2 Salamander Hunting Packs 2x 150

Total - 1999


His army:
(not 100% sure about this one)

Lord
2 Paladins
2 level 1 Damsels (Beasts & Life)
(in here a normal dispel scroll and dispel scroll that can wound me)

8 Knights Errant
8 Knights of the Realm
8 Knights of the Realm
8 Grail Knights

11 Skirmishing bowmen
10 bowmen
10 bowmen



Deployment & Setup:

I had Loremaster / all spells. He rolled Amber Spear and Earth Blood.

I won the roll for first turn and chose him to start deploying first.

I finished deploying last with my scouts, but he let me go first to get a ward.

You can see the battlefield before and after deployment here from my point of view.

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09191910.jpg

Terrain: wood & hill in his deployment zone, marsh & impassable rock in centre, jungle tree and hill in my deployment area.

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09193650.jpg

From left to right;

Skirmishing Bowmen, Bowmen, Bowmen & Damsel (Beasts), Knights of the Realm & Damsel (Life), Knights Errant & Paladin BSB, Grail Knights & Lord, Knights of the Realm & Paladin

Chameleon Skinks (scouting 12'' in front of skirmishing bowmen), Kroxigor & Skink unit just off shot on left, Slann & Temple Guard, Stegadon, Skink Skirmishers, Salamanders, Saurus & Scar Veteran, Salamanders, Skink Skirmishers.


Turn 1 Lizardmen:

This picture was taken at the end of my turn. I basically moved up trying to lure the knights into splitting up, forcing them to circle around the rocks and onto my salamanders, positioning skinks to direct them away at angles so they had to turn around etc. The Stegadon stayed still to fire but missed the knights opposite with its bow. The skirmishers all ran up, including the chameleons who lined up in front of the woods to shoot in. The Skinks & Kroxigor swung around trying to lure some knights through the marsh which they themselves were immune to thanks to aquatic.

In the magic phase, the Slann got throne of vines off and then cast +4T on the chameleons in case they were shot at next turn (which seemed pretty likely). None of his other spells were in range or had any use at this stage, I think he might have failed to cast something on the nearby salamanders which shut him down anyway. In the shooting phase, the chameleons did really bad and missed the lot. The skinks in the marsh (7 of 10 were in range) fired at the bowmen and killed one.

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09195620.jpg


Turn 1 Bretonnia:

Photo from end of turn. As expected, he took the bait and charged the skinks on the right who used stand and shoot but did nothing. In combat they were annihilated, but it left the knights with the paladin facing out at nothing with their flank to the salamanders. The rest of the knights had moved forwards slightly, wary of the salamanders, and in the magic phase he got earth blood off on his damsels unit of knights (paper markers on board). His other mage cast amber spear at the salamanders down the board from her but failed, but both archer unit then shot at long range and caused a wound on one of the beasts, killing 4 of the 6 handlers. The skirmishing bowmen ignore the high toughness chameleons and instead shot one skink dead in the marsh.

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09201753.jpg


Turn 2 Lizardmen:

First picture taken after my movement phase. At this point my combat blocks moved up just to get into positions to meet the charge where I could use my smaller units to flank them and use the terrain to my advantage. I moved the rightmost salamanders left slightly so the grail knights could see them but not the knights errant. I moved the other unit up towards the damsel and her knights. Here I also positioned my skinks so they could stand and shoot, and then his damsel would overrun through the marsh into my Kroxigor unit. I just had to watch those archers at my side, which is where the chameleons came in. They moved into the wood, right next to the skirmishing bowmen. The Slann moved up to get some range as the Stegadon moved up ready to counter.

http://s1158.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09202507.jpg

The next photo is from the end of the turn. In the magic phase this time I still had throne of vines, and got flesh to stone off again on the Kroxigor this time. I then cast Awakening Wood at the skirmishing bowmen but he dispelled it. I then failed to cast the healing spell on my salamanders, and he used his left over dispel dice to put down throne of vines (reducing the toughness boost on the Kroxigor to +2 not +4). In the shooting phase the chameleons dropped the skirmishing bowmen like flies, as the Skinks by the marsh shot at the bowmen with the damsel and maybe killed one or two.

The salamanders then opened up (note the hole in his grail knight unit that was not there a moment ago). On the left, one miscast and the other did no damage thanks to the damsels ward save of 6+ (despite flaming negating her magical regeneration of 5+). On the right however, both got the grail knight unit which resulted in three of them being burned alive.

http://s1158.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09203949.jpg


Turn 2 Bretonnia:

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09210203.jpg

Notice what I am missing in the picture above compared to last turn?

His knights with damsel charged the salamanders, who fled as they cannot stand and shoot, and he redirected them into the skinks as expected, whose stand and shoot did nothing. They lost a model to dangerous terrain when going through into the Kroxigor afterwards though as I planned. The other salamanders were charged too by the grail knights, but when they fled this unit was caught and destroyed. His errant and the misplaced knights of the realm had by now wheeled about to close back in on the fighting.

In his magic phase, I made the mistake of dispelling earth blood now that the damsel was in combat with my only three dispel dice, and letting him get off the amber spear. He managed to cast the boosted version, hurled it straight into the Stegadon and did 6 wounds!! Skewered the beast straight through the heart just as it was lining up a counter charge. Anyone who read the last game report will know that this guy has done nothing in both games now!

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09205239.jpg


Turn 3 Lizardmen:

It was charge or be charged with the Saurus so I threw them into the flank of the grail knights. I had rallied my remaining salamanders but other than the Slann everything I had left was now engaged apart from the chameleons who moved to the edge of the wood, to remain in soft cover but shoot at the bowmen from the side. The Slann led his Temple Guard up a few inches, and then in the magic phase had throne of vines dispelled with a scroll, as well as something else with the scroll that luckily didn't wound me. Then I cast dwellers on the damsel and her knights, with Irresistible force and a Miscast! The results were quite catastrophic, if a little funny...

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09211916.jpg

The Slann blew its top and the unit had to take a panic test due to high casualties which it failed on triple 6's!!!!!!!!

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09212424.jpg

The Damsel and three of her knights were dragged below by the dwellers. They later broke and caught the Kroxigor unit in combat which is when the picture was taken.

http://s1158.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09211922.jpg

The chameleons shot enough archers to send the rest running too, and they continued to do so until they left the board on an 11'' roll the next turn!

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09212907.jpg

The Scar Veteran and Bretonnian Lord enter a duel. They both wound each other once, but in the big combat around them I win and he breaks (even with a re-roll from his BSB) and runs through his nearby knights of the realm stopping one inch beyond. They test for panic and remain, so I overrun straight into the side of them too!

End of turn shots:

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09213458.jpg

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09213512.jpg


Turn 3 Bretonnia:

Since losing my Stegadon and Kroxigor, and miscasting to destroy most of my Temple Guard, things had started to go downhill for me after what looked like a pretty even game perhaps slightly even in my advantage. Now the tables had turned though, his grail knights rallied and his knights on the left wing charged my already fleeing Slann and rolled high enough to catch up as he tried desperately to get away.

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09213706.jpg

In the combat phase, another challenge was started. This time our units and champions hacked away at each other to no avail, but his horses killed 4 of my saurus and being rear charged and outnumbered the Saurus too decided to run for it (what is it with me failing these 3 dice Ld tests?!) They were caught and at the end of that turn, my opponent was ready to accept his victory.

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09214306.jpg

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09215101.jpg


Turn 4 Lizardmen:

Not about to concede without another turn of shooting, which was all I had left in the army after all, my chameleons ran out into close range and pin cushioned the bowmen leaving only the damsel alone behind her stakes.

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09215253.jpg

My Salamanders then had a go at the knights of the realm who had just finished off the Saurus, and incinerated two of them even as another miscast saw the last skink get eaten too!



Time was up, and what had looked like a promising victory and somehow turned into another crushing defeat. Here is the battle at the end of the game...

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09215445.jpg

[grumbaki]

Thanks for the battle report and the pics. And kudos for posting such a detailed loss. It takes a real man to do that.

[DarKolia]

Yeah I agree with grumbak', thanks for this interesting report...

[MOMUS]

A nice report, thanks for posting it.

Your list is OK (would rather have blowpipes on skinks), I just dont think you got the most out of it.
I think you had the right idea, using the rocks to get in the way of the knights while you deal with his other units but im not sure you knew how to pull it off.
A couple of times you lost units due to standing and shooting rather than fleeing when you gained nothing from it, such as when the knights charged the skinks on the right. It looks like the bret player has gained nothing but hes actually achieved double movement (compared to the other knights) and destroyed a unit which could hamper/redirect/march block his knights.
The skrox were charged, you state 'as planned' but if they had positioned just a little back they would have been charging, denying the brets from what they need the most.
Also dont forget lifebloom the lore attribute, its rather easy to get the first few spells of life off with just one die and the +1 from rumination.
Keep them coming

[Ximinipot]

I see that it looks like you're running your Saurus and Temple Guard 8 or 9 ranks wide. That's a couple ranks too wide in my opinion. I know you get more atttacks, but I've found, unless you're going to run a horde,6 ranks wide is perfect. That's how I run my Saurus and Temple Guard, and they work out fantastically. You don't get as many attacks, but you are more maneuverable and have a n extra rank or two. Also your Stegadon can move and fire. It's just a Slow To Fire weapon, which just means it can't stand and shoot. Take advantage of that and move your Stegadon into a good charge position while still firing your giant bow.

Also if you cast any spell while Throne of Vines in play, whether he dispells it or not, the spell remains in its buffed form. In your example you said "I then failed to cast the healing spell on my salamanders, and he used his left over dispel dice to put down throne of vines (reducing the toughness boost on the Kroxigor to +2 not +4)." Even though he dispelled Throne of Vines after you failed a casting, since you cast Flesh To Stone on the Kroxigors WHILE Throne Of Vines was in play, they would still benefit from the +4 Toughness. It would not immediately revert down to +2 Toughness. This is stated in the FAQ. Also remember your Slann as a 4+ save against anything, even miscast wounds unless other wise stated, and if he didn't die, the panic check you rolled on your Temple Guard with Triple 6's, wouldn't have had to been rolled in the first place since Temple Guard are Immune to Psychology. If the Slann died, well then that's just bad luck. Also remember that if you have more ranks at the end of combat than your opponent, that unit is stubborn. It doesn't matter if the charge was to the front side or rear, if you have more ranks, you are stubborn.

I would also suggest adding The Becalming Cogitaton, the War Banner and Cupped hands of The Old Ones to your Slann. It makes him just that much better and is still within your points allowance. I run a Life Slann also and always take Cupped Hands. Now I know that Throne of Vines gives you a 2+ to Ignore a Miscast, but if you don't have Throne Of Vines up, Cupped Hands can transfer that miscast (if you decide to AFTER rolling the miscast result) to one of his casters. Yes in some games I don't even use it and it's a 45 point waste, but I'd rather be safe than sorry, especially with your general and such a potent magic user, who isn't exactly cheap.

I would also suggest trying a Skink Chief on an Ancient Stegadon with the Stegadon War Spear. With 3 Strength 6 attacks(on the charge) from the Chief at Int 6, plus 2d6+1 Impact Hits at Strength 6, plus the 3 strength 6 attacks from the Ancient Stegadon, plus the d6 Thunderstomp attacks at Strength 6, that gives your opponent something to worry about. That's a potential of 26 strength 6 attacks in the first round of combat. I know you probably won't hit with everything, but lets say you hit and wound with 12 of them, that's +12 to your combat resolution, plus your +1 for charging, plus +1 for side or +2 for rear charge. That's +13-15 combat resolution right there. That's nothing to laugh about, especially since whatever you're fighting won't do that many wounds back to you. And they have to make a Terror check as you charge them to see if they run away, they may not even make it to combat with you, either way it's a win - win for you. Hope this will help you in your future battles.

I've been a Lizardmen player since they were introduced way back in 4th edition, if you have any questions or whatnot, don't hesitate to ask me. Good luck in your next battle my friend.

[MOMUS]

Ximinipot, you should check out this thread: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...tion-Lizardmen

[macejase]

Thanks for all the feedback and advice, and for pointing out the mistakes we made. I like to write up the report if I get time, it doesn't matter if I win or lose it was a great game.

I did think about fleeing instead of stand and shoot with the skinks afterwards, an obvious mistake against something they are never going to succeed at shooting down.

I had completely forgotten to use Lifebloom the entire game, must remember that next time, same with the ITP on the Temple Guard & Steadfast in my Saurus' combat.

I also didn't mention in the report, but the Slann did cast a second time just after his first and ended up losing 3 wizard levels and 3 of the spells.

My Temple Guard were 6 wide and the Saurus were 5 wide x 4 deep by the way.

Overall I much preferred Lore of Life to the Lore of Light, but I can see the benefits in both.



My next game will be Monday next week against a different opponent who will be using Skaven.