Should Eldar Grav Tanks have Flyer mode?

[Spell_of_Destruction]

Can of worms time!

Given that the Valk and Vendetta now have the option to be treated as Flyers, is there any reason that Eldar grav tanks shouldn't get in on the act too?

My understanding of how grav tanks function suggests that they can achieve sufficient altitude to be considered fliers for the purposes of a 40k game played on a 6' by 4' board. The crew are also fully sealed from the external environment.

Maybe GW had this in mind and it's why our skimmers are currently so easy to hit in assault. But then why would they have missed the opportunity to reclassify our skimmers as Flyer (Hover) in the new rulebook?

Of course there's also the possibility that it would be game breaking...

I suspect that for various reasons the answer is 'no' but I thought it was worthy of discussion.

Discuss.

[Rick Blaine]

They deserve it more than the Guard's gunships, that's for sure.

[Silentexile]

There's already an example of Eldar tanks flying via the Falcon Cloudstrike squadron formation, so I don't see why it wouldn't be possible.

[Radium]

Maybe Star Engines can give a tank the Flyer type now?

[Dwane Diblie]

Due to the fact that some of the anty-air units (Skyfire) also effect skimmers and there is currently no reason to, I am going to assume that maybe falcons will only beable to be Snap Shot when moving a curten speed like Flat Out or it will be an upgrade for them. But standard... I don't think so. Fluff wise, it is highly possable. I am hoping something like this will be the new Star Engenes.

[Hendarion]

Unlike Imperial ones they are able to short-time space-flights and are way faster according to Forgeworld numbers (as fast as or even faster than sound), so basically... yea. Game-wise I'd still prefer them not to be flyers, because I think it's game-breaking - same as Imperial ones are.
I like the idea of Star-Engines to enable flyer-mode though, since you pay for it.

[TheDoctor]

Can of worms time!

Given that the Valk and Vendetta now have the option to be treated as Flyers, is there any reason that Eldar grav tanks shouldn't get in on the act too?

My understanding of how grav tanks function suggests that they can achieve sufficient altitude to be considered fliers for the purposes of a 40k game played on a 6' by 4' board. The crew are also fully sealed from the external environment.

Maybe GW had this in mind and it's why our skimmers are currently so easy to hit in assault. But then why would they have missed the opportunity to reclassify our skimmers as Flyer (Hover) in the new rulebook?

Of course there's also the possibility that it would be game breaking...

I suspect that for various reasons the answer is 'no' but I thought it was worthy of discussion.

Discuss.

Guard's AV 12 gunships are perfectly capable of shooting down my supersonic interceptors without even trying, I would say yes. (Seriously, ******* Vultures and their twin linked Heavy 20 skyfire shooting at a Nightwing)

[Spell_of_Destruction]

A dedicated transport that is also a flyer is what I thought might be game breaking. I think that skyfire will become increasingly available though as the edition progresses.

I think it could be a really cool style of play for Eldar for transports to enter the table as flyers. I really like the Star Engines idea too.

[Chief Librarian Zypher]

Eldar have their own variety of flyers, which will/should be in the upcoming Aeronautica book at the end of the month. your basic grav-tank shouldn't have flying stock and if it is/becomes a purchasable upgrade, it should be expensive. it would be extremely broken if your whole army is flyers

[Hendarion]

A dedicated transport that is also a flyer is what I thought might be game breaking.

Still, the Necrons have one.
I'd be happy enough with Eldar skimmers deep striking though.

it would be extremely broken if your whole army is flyers

Yea, exactly as IG.

[Spell_of_Destruction]

Eldar have their own variety of flyers, which will/should be in the upcoming Aeronautica book at the end of the month. your basic grav-tank shouldn't have flying stock and if it is/becomes a purchasable upgrade, it should be expensive. it would be extremely broken if your whole army is flyers

I agree with you that the best argument against is probably game balance.

However, while I like the new flyer rules I feel they don't distinguish between different types of aircraft very well. The only difference between a gunship and a supersonic fighter is a few inches of movement. Really?

The point isn't really to compare Eldar grav tanks with true flyers but with 'hover' type flyers. It seems arbitrary for Imperial Gunships to be treated as flyers whereas grav tanks are not. If anything I would be more inclined to make grav tanks flyers than I would the gunships.

[Athlan na Dyr]

Eldar have their own variety of flyers, which will/should be in the upcoming Aeronautica book at the end of the month. your basic grav-tank shouldn't have flying stock and if it is/becomes a purchasable upgrade, it should be expensive. it would be extremely broken if your whole army is flyers

Oh, I completely agree despite being an Eldar player . Fact is that flyer armies in the current AA deficient game is a sure way to run out of friends to play against, just as the 'flying circus' style list was in 4th. That said, as the posters above me have pointed out this is not without precedent *insert random anti-Ward/ Cruddace comment here*.

Hopefully as 6th goes on the flakk missile and other AA weaponry will come online and the sheer brokeness of plane-spam will be significantly reduced. Furthermore I really hope that flyer AV will be capped at a maximum of 11.

That said a vehicle upgrade to act as flyers for a turn or so might not be too bad, but I'd rather have an Assault Vehicle option.

[nagash66]

Bad decisions regarding the IG flyers should not be used as an excuse for more of the same, rather a 'how soon can they fix the IG problem' should be more the way GW should be heading.

[Shamana]

It depends on how it's handled. In the case of the cloudstrike falcons, weren't they unable to fire in the round when they counted as fliers? I think this could work, since you gain extra speed (and defense) at the cost of losing your offense capability. It could work, I think.

Of course, if Eldar get it there's a high chance other armies will be getting it soon.

/me tries not to make bitter remarks about IG/INavy gunships this time.

[gutsmaka]

if eldar grav tanks were flyers then ghost and doom arcs would be the same, they can be seen on the cover art of the codex as flying. and they could go in space as `crons can survive in a vacuum.

edited to include arcs

[Athlan na Dyr]

if eldar grav tanks were flyers then ghost and doom scythes would be the same, they can be seen on the cover art of the codex as flying. and they could go in space as `crons can survive in a vacuum.

Both types of scythe (doom and night) are flyers as per the recent Necron FAQ

Bad decisions regarding the IG flyers should not be used as an excuse for more of the same, rather a 'how soon can they fix the IG problem' should be more the way GW should be heading.

Amen to that

[Spell_of_Destruction]

Bad decisions regarding the IG flyers should not be used as an excuse for more of the same, rather a 'how soon can they fix the IG problem' should be more the way GW should be heading.

Maybe, but they had an opportunity recently and decided to make IG gunships even better. Vendetta's were super cheap before. Now they're ridiculous. 'Fixing' IG gunships doesn't seem to be high on GW's list of priorities.

The fast skimmer assault nerf (always WS 1) is pretty harsh and only serves to emphasize the advantage that flyers have.

[gutsmaka]

Both types of scythe (doom and night) are flyers as per the recent Necron FAQ

woops, sorry, meant arc, both types of arc

[Charax]

as a very expensive upgrade? maybe, but I think it ruins their flavour somewhat, I'd rather give them a pop-up attack again than have them all as flyers

[Inquisitor Kallus]

Unlike Imperial ones they are able to short-time space-flights and are way faster according to Forgeworld numbers (as fast as or even faster than sound), so basically... yea. Game-wise I'd still prefer them not to be flyers, because I think it's game-breaking - same as Imperial ones are.
I like the idea of Star-Engines to enable flyer-mode though, since you pay for it.

You're spot on Hendarion, their listed speeds are greater.
I would like to see them have it as they really are flyers, even going back to the issue of WD when they were released, which mentioned their flying ability.