Possible Thousand Sons retcon?

[Nurgling Chieftain]

Ruleswise, if you want to change Tzeentch, why not change the mark of tzeentch from being an inv save to being +1 psychic mastery level.

Right now it does both those things.

[Daedalus81]

Right now it does both those things.

Wait - it does?

[Nurgling Chieftain]

Yup. It adds +1 to everybody's invulnerable save, it allows HQ sorcerors and DP's to buy an extra psychic power, and, most notably for this discussion, it allows any psyker possessing the mark to use two psychic powers per turn - which is explicitly equivalent to having mastery level 2 in the new rules (except that your number of powers is based on how many you bought rather than how many you were eligible to buy).

...It won't make a non-psyker into a psyker, though, if that's what you meant.

[Daedalus81]

Ok cool - so my tzeentch HQ can buy two powers, generate 2 charges, and swap out for 2 BRB powers. I like it - too bad it didn't do the same for aspiring sorcerers. :P

[Azzy]

Heh. Dust buckets.

Given the shape of their helmets, wouldn't "Dust Bunnies" be more fitting?

[RunepriestRidcully]

Nah, Khorne's Blood bunnies have the market on rabbit themes/chappy:40,000.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

The aspiring sorceror still gets Warp Charge 2, but only one power.

[AndrewGPaul]

What do you mean, "take out the Thousand Son bits"? Are you perhaps getting confused? There were two stories involving Brother-Captain Karlsen; the one with him reviewing all his old memories was the other one. Not sure when it appeared, but it must have been in a later publication. The story in the current rulebook first appeared in White Dwarf 156, as the epilogue to the Chaos at Kadavah battle report.

[TheCaptain]

Im pretty sure that has always been the thousand sons fluff since late 2nd Ed, the only really active marines were part of the cabal that were banished. They pretty much became the navigators of the traitor fleets of other legions

[Xandros]

What do you mean, "take out the Thousand Son bits"? Are you perhaps getting confused? There were two stories involving Brother-Captain Karlsen; the one with him reviewing all his old memories was the other one. Not sure when it appeared, but it must have been in a later publication. The story in the current rulebook first appeared in White Dwarf 156, as the epilogue to the Chaos at Kadavah battle report.

The earliest appearance of Brother-Sorcerer Karlsen reviewing his memories was to my knowledge in the 2nd edition Wargear book.

So he's got another story which in the rulebook now? Which page is that on?

[AndrewGPaul]

I remember the days when the Thousand Sons were not dust buckets; I therefore do not mind if they return to their previous fleshy selves. However I agree that this is probably something that is being read into too much.

The story in the main rulebook page 229 about a Brother-Captain Karlsen was actually a story of a Thousand Son Space Marine before they became dust buckets in the flesh. It was a story that accompanied an Epic Battle report that reappeared in the Epic Battles book.

Like I said, The Long War first appeared in WD 156 - at least ten months before 2nd edition 40K appeared. The story you're thinking about (entitled Dark Communion) referred to the events of The Long War as one of the memories he would keep, so clearly came later. Perhaps that "later" was only twenty minutes for Bill King writing them, but there was definitely a big gap in publication dates.

I was sure Dark Communion appeared in White Dwarf before bing in the Wargear book, but now I'm not so sure.

All this talk makes me want to convert up a miniature of Brother Captain Karlsen now. I was going to have Ahriman lead my Thousand Sons squad, but now I'm not so sure.

[Xandros]

How will you convert him? A bolter and a tentacle aren't the usual armament for a sorcerer.

[AndrewGPaul]

The rules are irrelevant - they can, after all, be changed. Given that I'm considering adding some special weapons and a heavy weapon to the squad, I doubt they'll hit the table as actual Thousand Sons. Probably a Chaos Lord and a squad of Chaos Space Marines as allies to my Imperial Guard.

[Chem-Dog]

While it doesn't mention dust filled armour, it is certainly accurate to say that the rubric brought greater changes. I'd certainly consider having my body turned to dust and my free will suppressed to be a greater change than growing an extra arm or two.

I think it's more one of those "Careful what you wish for" things. Ahriman sets about using the Rubric to cure his Legion fo the terrible fleshy curse they are afflicted with and does so, but not without certain.... Drawbacks. Meanwhile, in the Warp, Tzeench is giving it his best "Just as Planned" face.

On the other hand, while as you say "Tzeentchian marines should be mutated", "Tzeentchian Marines" is not the same thing as "Thousand Sons Marines" (the same goes for Death Guard and Plague Marines, World Eaters and Khorne Berserkers and Emperor's Children and Noise Marines). Even if the Thousand Sons legion is still described as being made up entirely of sorcerors and automata, there's still plenty of room for Chaos Marines in pastel pink and blue armour with three arms, tentacles and a face in their torso.

This. It's one of the biggest failings of the current "Mark" system IMO, You can't make Tzeench Marines, you can make poor knock-offs of Rubric Marines. Yes, the Rubric reverberates through time so that anyone latterly coming to the Legion will go Dusty or power-up to Super Sorcerer levels, but there's so much scope for those who've embraced the warping power of eternal change. On the Same Token, all of the "Cult" Marine squads require extra gubbins to make them "Different" you might as well abandon the Mark System for them altogether, and simply present their altered stats.

Before the last codex hit us I was sincerely hoping that TS Sorcerers would gain access to a range of powers that let them buff their attendant Rubric brethren, like the effect of "The Sorcerer Commands" but with more options.
Looking at receiving a heavy round of High Power Shooting? Turn your Rubrics' save into an invulnerable.
Need to wheedle your enemies out of cover? Enchant the bolters of your Automatons with warp-spawned fire.
Need to drop a Tank pronto? Use your sorcery to combine the fire of the unit into a single devastating blast. And so on....