Bretonnian Rumours

[Sir_Glonojad]

The variety is low, but that doesn't automatically mean "simpletonnes". Quite the contrary - You must have a flexible mind and make some thinking to beat armies full of monstrous infrantries, cavalries, 40k vahicles *cough* soulgrinder *cough* etc with an "almost typical medieval army" (even if some of the horses have wings ). A pair of Trebuchets and a HKB Duke will not always be enough for the work IMO.

[Petey]

Personally, as someone who played the army for an entire year on the GT circut, I am pretty pleased with the book in its current form. There could be some tweaks, to be sure, but the same could easily said of armies that actually HAVE gotten books in 8th edition. Honestly, Bretts will benefit more from the power trio being toned down (DE, LM, Skaven) than by getting a new book.

Right now, I can hold alright against Lizardmen and occasionally sneak a win past Skaven, but a good DE player always trumps me and it always comes down to the unkillable Peg Lord. Ogres are a rough matchup, but that is no different than the previous Ogre book. I have beaten, if not tabled, every single Daemon army I have faced in the last three years with Bretts. So overall, I think Bretts are in a very good spot, balance wise. I would hate to see them get Cruddaced.

If I were to make some tweaks, it would be to change the blessing to 6+ against ranged and 5+ against shooting all the time, to make it more like prior editions. I would like to see the Lance be Horde at 3 wide and no flanks, to simplify it for 8th. I would let Questing dump their Great Weapons, if they so chose, so that they could be S4 Ws5 grinders. I would move mounted Yeoman to core and make the relique flat unbreakable (to improve its use and prevent it from being a hero bunker). I would up the cost of the Treb to 120 and add a 10 point flaming option. I would cut the cost of Pegs to 40 per model, make them rare, allow them to take magic banners, and change them to T3 W3. Finally, I would add Light to the lore options for the Prophetess.

A couple of problems with this, Phazael. We have 4 Hero choices, while they can be very different with the virtues, we lack variety. They have addressed this in BRB, by letting us know that we're going to get spectral units, ergo we'll probably have spectral heroes as well (not just the green knight), add to this that they really need to add an archer hero/peasant hero, if for no other reason than the fluff screams for it to happen. Additionally, we only have 3 special characters. The last edition of the book had at least 4 more (no idea as I don't know where I put the damn thing, but I can name 4 from memory), as we've seen a resurgence of special characters, we can be sure we'll get them back.

Next, your design has no center piece model. I know that many people don't like them, but really they've become standard to the armies in 8th, and Brets could really have excellent ones.

As to your tweaks, I assume you mean 6+ in melee and 5+ v. ranged. I assume we'll actually get something really dumbed down, like 5+ all the time. I hope they don't remove the blessing's liabilities.
Lance as 3 wide horde is excellent, I'm all for it, but I'm sorry every formation must have flanks, and the knight on with the Bretonnians are based on, did have serious flank liabilities.
Questing Knights really need to have multiple weapon options. Morning stars, Spears, Great Weapons should all be available. They should also be available on foot.
Core Yeomen are dependant on what else the rest of the army looks like frankly. On the Relique (I converted Sisters Repentia for my unit of these) It should be like a corpse cart, or shrine that you can attach to any peasant/man at arms unit and deployed like one would a Kroxigor amongst skinks, then you could have the relique have different holy powers you could buy for it. As to the Treb, it should just be a stone thrower, and stay the same cost, with options for making the template flaming (winebarrel) or magic (chunk of Shrine) at 10 points for either (but not both).
I think the Pegasus Knights need to stay Special given the amount of special Monstrous Cavalry in the Game today (though I like your other suggestions).
As to Damsels, they need Life, Beasts, Heavens, and Light, with the Prophetess generically able to get a unicorn.

[Sir_Glonojad]

14. In the 5th edition we had 14 special character entries.

[popisdead]

14. In the 5th edition we had 14 special character entries.

Wood Elves were similar in 4th ed. I would like to see the return of old characters and storylines myself.

[Antipathy]

As long as they stay not the whole any peasant can become a knight by providing an errand for a lord. That was terrible.

[jindianajonz]

That was terrible.

...Agreed...

[Artinam]

Yes don't give those animals any crazy ideas of becoming a noble...

Actually I'd love some more dept in the whole commonfolk-nobility stuff. I'd love fluff about a region where the Peasants are on the point of revolting. Alternatively I'd love to see fluff about empoverished nobles who are marrying of later sons and daughters to wealthy merchants. Make Bretonnia actually seem like a possible society with various faults.

[Demiurg]

Yes don't give those animals any crazy ideas of becoming a noble...

Actually I'd love some more dept in the whole commonfolk-nobility stuff. I'd love fluff about a region where the Peasants are on the point of revolting. Alternatively I'd love to see fluff about empoverished nobles who are marrying of later sons and daughters to wealthy merchants. Make Bretonnia actually seem like a possible society with various faults.

That would be cool a merchant knight

Though I do miss the idea of a peasant who is worthy enough to be a knight

[EarlyBird]

Wood Elves were similar in 4th ed. I would like to see the return of old characters and storylines myself.

Your wishes have been heard.....

[Tuttivillus]

I'd love fluff about a region where the Peasants are on the point of revolting.

Moussilion - and look how it ended

[Demiurg]

Moussilion - and look how it ended

Wasn't that orchestrated by a vampire so he could gain control?

[Tuttivillus]

Wasn't that orchestrated by a vampire so he could gain control?

Well, they had to come up with some excuse after riot was over

[Sir_Glonojad]

Yes don't give those animals any crazy ideas of becoming a noble...

Actually I'd love some more dept in the whole commonfolk-nobility stuff. I'd love fluff about a region where the Peasants are on the point of revolting. Alternatively I'd love to see fluff about empoverished nobles who are marrying of later sons and daughters to wealthy merchants. Make Bretonnia actually seem like a possible society with various faults.

Actually 6th edition did try that and IMO that made Bretonnia loose some of it's flavour - it is Fantasy, not Warhammer Historical. But that's just my opinion of course.

[Artinam]

Well we simply disagree on that then. I'd love Bretonnia to be a quasi realistic medieval army with fantasy elements.

I'd say 6th edition went both to far and not far enough. It went to far by creating an impossible society where every peasant dies after taxes are paid 90% rate is inhumane and no Lord who wants a regular income would tax this much and expect to see any peasants alive. It didn't went far enough because it was really small in fluff about Bretonnian society outside perfect human knights and oppressed dehuman slaves

Knights of the Grail added a lot of great material to it, a lot of dept, cool concepts for the army and gave the Peasants an actual 'life'. I'd say 5th edition where everyone was happy, pure and no political intrigue outside the Affair of the False Grail is boring.

[Sir_Glonojad]

Well, I can agree on one thing - whichever way the background goes, it should become more coherent and better written.

[Juicy21]

I m playing bretonnia for a long time now most of the games 2400/3000 points.. and its really hard to believe and strange to read that bretonnians are tabling Daemons. with are and i think most people would agree our hardest matchup. in my gaming group our deamons player knows his game and is very hard to beat. For my feeling our book needs to improve a lot.. .. when facing the 8th armies i do fine but still i havent got that many tools compared to my oppenents.

Dont get me wrong i love my bretonnians more then i love playing any of my other armies. But when i play at a tournement iam for 90% the only bretonnian player.

[Bring_Back_Chaos_Dwarfs?]

Don't know if anyone else has noticed this or posted this, or maybe this is old news - my apologies if it is - but on the GW website questing knights (the box of 5) are now gone. I had been on the fence about direct ordering from them (I don't play bretonnia, but I like those models quite a bit), and I could have sworn a week ago they had them on the U.S. website still! The grail reliquae is gone as well. I imagine they all are going to be finecasted.

[jindianajonz]

Don't know if anyone else has noticed this or posted this, or maybe this is old news - my apologies if it is - but on the GW website questing knights (the box of 5) are now gone. I had been on the fence about direct ordering from them (I don't play bretonnia, but I like those models quite a bit), and I could have sworn a week ago they had them on the U.S. website still! The grail reliquae is gone as well. I imagine they all are going to be finecasted.

Somebody posted 4 pages back or so that these, along with some others including Trebuchet, Lord, and Damsels, are all listed as being finecasted on Sept 15

[Ja9nge]

I hope they also do the rare blister pack questing knights in finecast. Those are hard to find these days.

[Sir_Glonojad]

Having bought a metal and a finecast Hellcannon, I found that the Finecast version went together a lot better than the metal - hopefully the Treb (also notoriously hard to build) is a similar experience.

I hope so, but I just began assembling the finecast King Louen. Although the material is really wonderful to work with - all the mould lines disappear, it's lightweight etc., there are certain issues with cast quality - no amount of tap water would make the Hippogryph halves fit with each other and, because of all this water play, I lost one of the smaller elements to the sewers and can't even replace the model . So I must say that my enthusiasm for the Finecast trebuchet is no longer that high...

I hope they also do the rare blister pack questing knights in finecast. Those are hard to find these days.

Currently only the two knights already available in the boxed set are sold on GW site. I doubt that there will be more in Finecast, although some obviously should be available - all the other finecast units* have regular troop packs available, though in the case of infantry these are five-pack boxes, not blisters of three of old.

* - with the exception of Blood Knights which have resin horses (I hope that's the key...).