Independent characters and maximum reserves

[Gaargod]

Necron airport lists. Regardless of whether you think they're a good choice or not, they're a pain with everything flying.
Now, initially, I thought they couldn't do this due to min 50% starting on the table. However, p.124 (note, this is all one paragraph):

When deploying their armies, players can choose not to deploy up to half their units (rounding up) keeping them as Reserves to arrive later.

Easy enough. Minimum 50% of units start on the table. So if I have 10 units, 5 can start in reserve.

Units that must start the game in reserve are ignored for the purpose of working out how many other units may do so.

Ok, so stuff like Flyers and Drop Pods (and weirder things) are ignored. In the above example, if I had 10 unit consisting of 3 drop pods and 1 flyer, I would effectively only have 6 units, so 3 max in reserve.

A unit and its Dedicated Transport are counted as a single unit for these purposes.

Ok. In the above example, if I had placed 3 squads into my drop pods, they wouldn't count. So including the flyer too, I only have 3 units not counting, so only 1 can go in reserves. (minimum 50%).

Independent Characters are counted as a single unit regardless of whether they have joined another unit or not.

The question is then, do Independent Characters placed in a unit with its dedicated transport count as a single unit for minimum and maximum reserves? I'm going with no - its very specific about "a unit and its dedicated transport", with no mention of hangers on (and indeed, someone like vets in a vendetta would count as 2 units).

However! p.39:

While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes...

I'm still going with no, because of p.124 again:

First, he must specify to the opponent if any of his Independent Characters left in reserves are joining a unit, in which case they will arrive together

That implies to me that you have to work out whether your IC is in Reserves first (obeying the maximum of reserves), and then join him to a unit.



Note, I think Necron Airports are silly things. Also, because of the (slightly odd) requirement of having models on the board at the end of any turn, it's probably not going to matter, as the Necron player will have 2+ units to hang back and not die.
But yeah, it's confusing me that some lists apparently have 2 characters and a Royal Court or 2, apparently embarking on Nightscythes.

[Dwane Diblie]

Using your example of 10 units:

IC/Marines = 2
Marines = 1
Marines/Drop Pod = 0
Marines/Drop Pod = 0
Marines/Drop Pod = 0
Flyer = 0

You have 3 units. You can reserves 50% rounding up. You can put the IC/Marines in reserves if you want. Leaving you with just one marine unit on the table.

The question I have is if you stick a unit on a non-dedicated flyer then dose the whole thing not count to your limit or just the flyer. I am leaning to just the flyer but I can see an argument the otherway.

[ehlijen]

Things that don't count towards your reserves limit:
-Units that must start in reserves.
-Units aboard their dedicated transport that must start in reserves.

Anything else counts. ICs count as their own unit regardless of whether they're attached to anything, so unless they have the option for a dedicated transport that must enter reserves for themselves, they will always count towards the reserves limit.

As far as I can see the only lists able to do the all reserves tactic are:
-SM/SW/BA/GK? droppods. They even arrive turn one and thus don't auto lose.
-DA droppods as long as they included at least one deathwing unit to arrive in turn one.
-Nid spore pods (plus lictors if you like). Will auto lose in turn 1.
-Necron flyer list. Will auto lose in turn 1.

[Coredump]

ICs in drop pods also don't count towards the 50% limit. I believe they simply made a mistake when they wrote that rule, but it is in there.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

As far as I can see the only lists able to do the all reserves tactic are:

You forgot Daemons.

[96mgb]

So a drop pod list isnt possible as your hq would have to start on the board?

[bad dice]

Necron airport lists. Regardless of whether you think they're a good choice or not, they're a pain with everything flying.
Now, initially, I thought they couldn't do this due to min 50% starting on the table. However, p.124 (note, this is all one paragraph):



Easy enough. Minimum 50% of units start on the table. So if I have 10 units, 5 can start in reserve.



Ok, so stuff like Flyers and Drop Pods (and weirder things) are ignored. In the above example, if I had 10 unit consisting of 3 drop pods and 1 flyer, I would effectively only have 6 units, so 3 max in reserve.



Ok. In the above example, if I had placed 3 squads into my drop pods, they wouldn't count. So including the flyer too, I only have 3 units not counting, so only 1 can go in reserves. (minimum 50%).



The question is then, do Independent Characters placed in a unit with its dedicated transport count as a single unit for minimum and maximum reserves? I'm going with no - its very specific about "a unit and its dedicated transport", with no mention of hangers on (and indeed, someone like vets in a vendetta would count as 2 units).

However! p.39:


I'm still going with no, because of p.124 again:



That implies to me that you have to work out whether your IC is in Reserves first (obeying the maximum of reserves), and then join him to a unit.



Note, I think Necron Airports are silly things. Also, because of the (slightly odd) requirement of having models on the board at the end of any turn, it's probably not going to matter, as the Necron player will have 2+ units to hang back and not die.
But yeah, it's confusing me that some lists apparently have 2 characters and a Royal Court or 2, apparently embarking on Nightscythes.

You are correct you need to work out reserves before you can have IC join units.

[96mgb]

Thats so dumb roll on faq, why would your librarian think

Hey ill start on the battlefield on my own while all my mates sit in their drop pods. Whats that you have space for me...no thanks id rather get out and stretch my legs infront of that gun line...

[Lord Damocles]

Forgive me if I'm being dense, but say if you had the following army:

Captain
Tactical Sqaud in Drop Pod
Tactical Squad in Drop Pod

The Tactical Squads and Drop Pods don't count for the number of units you can have in Reserve, because they have to start in Reserve.
That leaves you one unit remaining (Captain). Half your remaining units (1/2), rounded up (1) can then be put in Reserve, so the Captain can be put in Reserve (eg. in one of the Drop Pods).
So you can have a full Reserve army?

[Coredump]

ICs in drop pods also are not counted when figuring the 50%. I think it is an oversight, but the rule is in there.

[Dwane Diblie]

Where? FAQ, Codex or Rule Book? Just so I know where to look.

[96mgb]

ICs in drop pods also are not counted when figuring the 50%. I think it is an oversight, but the rule is in there.

I dont think you are right. ICs do count, unless they have an option for a dedicated transport which must start in reserve.

In the case above with the captain and 2 squads in DP that is correct. However 2 squads and an hq does not a decent army make :-)

[96mgb]

ICs in drop pods also are not counted when figuring the 50%. I think it is an oversight, but the rule is in there.

I dont think you are right. ICs do count, unless they have an option for a dedicated transport which must start in reserve.

In the case above with the captain and 2 squads in DP that is correct. However 2 squads and an hq does not a decent army make :-)

[WildWeasel]

The rules for Deep Strike on page 36 specifies that models that must Deep Strike and all models embarked upon them do not count for the reserved calculation.

So anything on a drop pod doesn't count, and all drop armies are legal, no matter how many ICs you take, as long as they are joined to podding units.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

I can see how people miss it. There's an incomplete version of the rule on page 124 - which is frankly where it belongs - and then more of it under deep-strike, which isn't really where you'd look for it. As written, if you had non-deep-strike vehicle that had to remain in reserve, it and it's dedicated contents wouldn't count, but an embarked IC would. 'Course, no such vehicle exists, but it still seems sloppy, IMO.

[Coredump]

I actually think it was meant to be that the ICs *do* count, and the rule on p.36 was not thorough enough. But that isn't how it is written, so....

[WildWeasel]

As written, if you had non-deep-strike vehicle that had to remain in reserve, it and it's dedicated contents wouldn't count, but an embarked IC would. 'Course, no such vehicle exists, but it still seems sloppy, IMO.

All flyers meet that description. Which brings us to full circle to airport lists.