Brummies in 40K

[Scalebug]

My favourite is that Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka is a refrence to Margaret Thatcher.


Margaret Thatcher

Mag Uruk Thraka

Feel a little bad deflating someone's favourite here, but, sorry...While there are a lot of these kind of jokes in the games, Ghaskull's name isn't one of them, that is just internet hearsay.

It sounds fitting, with GW back in the days having this nerdpunk ethos of joking anti-authority and not liking Thatcher, but when you examine it, you'll see that she was already out of office by the time Ghazkull was put into the game (starting out as an example warboss for the Goff's in the early 90´s Ork books). It is also not really close for it to be a good parody, either in the supposed likeness of the name, or the description of the character.

Source for this is having asked Andy Chambers, who wrote the part of that book when we had him as guest at some con's back in the 90's, and even before the widespread use of interwebs, there was an assumption that Ghazkulls name was a pun on Thatcher... Andy told us that it was pure coincidence, the name was generated from the actual random name tables. You would see parts of that table in the Ork Books of around turn of the 90's, and they might have been re-printed in later editions of the Ork list as well. Supposedly the original table was bigger, like the chaos daemon ones from about the same era, but got cut to half a page in its final version, due to space in the books.

[Unclejo]

I really miss those random number tables, with everything from wargear to character stats being down to the vagaries of the dice. Probably wasn't a lot of fun if you were prone to rolling a lot of ones though!

[borithan]

Feel a little bad deflating someone's favourite here, but, sorry...While there are a lot of these kind of jokes in the games, Ghaskull's name isn't one of them, that is just internet hearsay.

It sounds fitting, with GW back in the days having this nerdpunk ethos of joking anti-authority and not liking Thatcher, but when you examine it, you'll see that she was already out of office by the time Ghazkull was put into the game (starting out as an example warboss for the Goff's in the early 90´s Ork books). It is also not really close for it to be a good parody, either in the supposed likeness of the name, or the description of the character.

Source for this is having asked Andy Chambers, who wrote the part of that book when we had him as guest at some con's back in the 90's, and even before the widespread use of interwebs, there was an assumption that Ghazkulls name was a pun on Thatcher... Andy told us that it was pure coincidence, the name was generated from the actual random name tables. You would see parts of that table in the Ork Books of around turn of the 90's, and they might have been re-printed in later editions of the Ork list as well. Supposedly the original table was bigger, like the chaos daemon ones from about the same era, but got cut to half a page in its final version, due to space in the books.

I don't think the timing really suggests anything. Even if she was out by the time the books came out, Margaret Thatcher would still have been a significant presence in everybody's mind at the time. She was only kicked out in November 1990, and it isn't infeasible that the work on the books was going on before she was ousted, and even after she had been the dominant political figure in 1980s Britain and so a reference isn't unlikely.

Of course, if Andy Chambers said it wasn't the case then presumably it wasn't, but I would call that the definitive argument, rather than the fact they were published in 1991.

[Scalebug]

I don't think the timing really suggests anything. Even if she was out by the time the books came out, Margaret Thatcher would still have been a significant presence in everybody's mind at the time.

Well, yes, of course you would have been perfectly able to make such a parody of her even afterwards, and still can (although now you will have to deal with the issue of her severe health problems and how you feel about poking fun at someone with that... ), as you could do with any polictical figure, but I was mostly pointing to the fact that whenever it comes up, people retelling what they have heard assume that Ghazkull came about in a general hazy "sometimes in the 80's, before I was even born, and she was prime minister during the 80's, I read it in history class..." period of 1st edition, and that because of that it was a deliberate parody.

[Harwammer]

Anyone who has ever been to Birmingham will know what a perfect fit it is for a dystopian mythos.

[ryng_sting]

Tralling through the Lexicanum I found a Bit about Garran Crowe defending a desolate planet called Birmingham.
On clicking the link I found that:

Did the guys in Notingham put really put this in? or is the guy filling out the entry having a joke?

A joke. And not a terribly funny one.

[Poncho160]

Feel a little bad deflating someone's favourite here, but, sorry...While there are a lot of these kind of jokes in the games, Ghaskull's name isn't one of them, that is just internet hearsay.

It sounds fitting, with GW back in the days having this nerdpunk ethos of joking anti-authority and not liking Thatcher, but when you examine it, you'll see that she was already out of office by the time Ghazkull was put into the game (starting out as an example warboss for the Goff's in the early 90´s Ork books). It is also not really close for it to be a good parody, either in the supposed likeness of the name, or the description of the character.

Source for this is having asked Andy Chambers, who wrote the part of that book when we had him as guest at some con's back in the 90's, and even before the widespread use of interwebs, there was an assumption that Ghazkulls name was a pun on Thatcher... Andy told us that it was pure coincidence, the name was generated from the actual random name tables. You would see parts of that table in the Ork Books of around turn of the 90's, and they might have been re-printed in later editions of the Ork list as well. Supposedly the original table was bigger, like the chaos daemon ones from about the same era, but got cut to half a page in its final version, due to space in the books.

I think Ghazghkull was first in either WD 134 or Waaagh da orks both of which came out in 1990. Margaret Thatcher was still in power in 1990 so it is quite possible that Ghazgkulls name was a derived from from Maggies.

[Scalebug]

I think Ghazghkull was first in either WD 134 or Waaagh da orks both of which came out in 1990. Margaret Thatcher was still in power in 1990 so it is quite possible that Ghazgkulls name was a derived from from Maggies.

While he was in "'ere we go", came out in 1991, as the example Goff warboss, read the entire post, like borithan pointed out, the timing thing wasn't the main point.

[Chem-Dog]

Feel a little bad deflating someone's favourite here, but, sorry...While there are a lot of these kind of jokes in the games, Ghaskull's name isn't one of them, that is just internet hearsay.

It sounds fitting, with GW back in the days having this nerdpunk ethos of joking anti-authority and not liking Thatcher, but when you examine it, you'll see that she was already out of office by the time Ghazkull was put into the game (starting out as an example warboss for the Goff's in the early 90´s Ork books). It is also not really close for it to be a good parody, either in the supposed likeness of the name, or the description of the character.

Source for this is having asked Andy Chambers, who wrote the part of that book when we had him as guest at some con's back in the 90's, and even before the widespread use of interwebs, there was an assumption that Ghazkulls name was a pun on Thatcher... Andy told us that it was pure coincidence, the name was generated from the actual random name tables. You would see parts of that table in the Ork Books of around turn of the 90's, and they might have been re-printed in later editions of the Ork list as well. Supposedly the original table was bigger, like the chaos daemon ones from about the same era, but got cut to half a page in its final version, due to space in the books.

Though I'm down with the idea it's a weird confluence of random chance and having no deliberate tie-in to the Iron Lady, I remember seeing the the first mentions of Ghaz when she was still very much in the public eye, so timing wasn't an issue.
I am, however, weirded out by the notion that the good old British sense of humour, laced with a satirical regard for public figures as it is, is now considered as "Nerdpunk".

[Scalebug]

Wasn't aiming for a deeper sociological analysis there, just a lighthearted neologismic description of the punk ethos of the 70's and 80's married to the obvious "nerdism" of fantasy games...

[Dylius]

...

Source for this is having asked Andy Chambers, who wrote the part of that book when we had him as guest at some con's back in the 90's, and even before the widespread use of interwebs, there was an assumption that Ghazkulls name was a pun on Thatcher... Andy told us that it was pure coincidence, the name was generated from the actual random name tables. You would see parts of that table in the Ork Books of around turn of the 90's, and they might have been re-printed in later editions of the Ork list as well. Supposedly the original table was bigger, like the chaos daemon ones from about the same era, but got cut to half a page in its final version, due to space in the books.

It's possible that he was just saying that to avoid upsetting customers who supported her.

Of course, I could be wrong (and I haven't actually seen those tables, either).

[Scalebug]

To clarify, this is not a re-telling of something I read on warseer or other forums, or something in white dwarf or an interview or anything, it is a fist-hand testimony... I was the one asking him about it (since one of my co-organizers was set on it being this pun on Margaret Thatcher), at a convention where we had him as a guest. In 1995 or 96 (he was there both years, don't remember which one it was), and it was in Sweden.

[The bearded one]

A joke. And not a terribly funny one.

I think it's funny. Some guys from Nottingham taking the piss with Birmingham by naming a dark and desolate planet of illiterates after them where the musket is still in use.

It stands for the gamer-type humour we like to enjoy, reminding us the gamedesigners weren't always that serious.

[ryng_sting]

I don't think it was funny in the least.

[Dylius]

I don't think it was funny in the least.

From Birmingham are you?

I guess humour is subjective.

[LordLucan]

I guess humour is subjective.

No! You are completely wrong! Humour is objective... but that's just my opinion...

But yeah, I found that little humourous reference gave me a mild smirk, which is all it is really supposed to. It's not supposed to be a proper joke or something we're supposed to analyse in great detail. It's just a pun.

Also, I have to agree with chem-dog about 'nerdpunk'. That term seems an excessively vague one, as doesn't 'punk' indicate a distinct sub-culture or counter culture, and isn't there already the concept of nerd culture/community, considered distinct from the mainstream? If so, nerdpunk feels like a redundant term; you could class any science ficiton, fantasy, space opera, magical or otherwise 'cult' setting/product range/game as nerdpunk, and we'd still need to sub-divide it further to have any idea of what we mean.

[AndrewGPaul]

As I understand it, the original characterisation for the races in Warhammer - before the Warhammer setting as such, in 1st and 2nd editions - was as follows; elves were winebar-frequenting yuppie City and Home Counties types, dwarves were flat cap-wearing, bitter-drinking northern types and orcs were cockney football hooligans. Thirty years later, the core of that is still there, if you poke hard enough.

[Grand_Marshal_Kazan]

Ork biker Wazdakka Gutsmek destroying a Warlord Titan on Scalex VI (Scalextric).

[borithan]

It's possible that he was just saying that to avoid upsetting customers who supported her.

Of course, I could be wrong (and I haven't actually seen those tables, either).

Seems unlikely you would find many Thatcher supporters among 10-15 year old boys, even back in 1995.

[Sir_Turalyon]

As recently as in the June WD we had an Ork fighter ace Blue Mek along the more obvious Krimson Baroon...