Chaos space marines in Inquisitor

[TheDungen]

Lo folks I have felt that most people seem to dislike the idea of having space marines in inquisitor. But what about chaos space marines?

You see my general in wh 40k is a Fallen angel chaos sorcerer who likes pretending to be a loyalist space marine. as a hero he would be overpowered, but as a villain? as that guy who everyone teams up against on the end (well if they manage to uncover who he really is, inquisitor campaigns should be pretty open ended after all).

I could see him showing up on his own as an ally in certain situations before the truth is revealed always working towards his own goals but pretending to help one of the sides (but more then likely to shoot them in the back if it should fit his agenda). And then maybee alone or with some weak henchmen (really weak, he's a space marine and a psyker) against more than one warband in the end.

I could even see letting the oppoing warband get some help from the unforgiven in the final battle if the odds are stacked agaisnt them. so what do you think? a workable idea, would any gm consider letting me use this character?

[MarcoSkoll]

Lo folks I have felt that most people seem to dislike the idea of having space marines in inquisitor.

No, what people dislike is characters appearing in a context where they don't make sense and taking the fun out of the game.

As I've said in the past, Inquisitor would be much poorer if it didn't have SMs. They're a key part of the WH40K universe, and should definitely appear in the right context.

But as a rare, unsubtle and very formidable shock trooper, they don't normally have reason to be part of most plotlines that feature in Inquisitor. A Space Marine belongs on the front-line punching in Ork faces, not investigating the ritually severed heads that have started appearing around a hive city. That's something for other Imperial agencies - the Inquisition or Arbites.

Rules do apply differently for GMs and players though. If the GM wants to write a plot-line which can centre around or feature an NPC Space Marine, then that's another case.

An Alpha Legionnaire as the "Big Bad" of a campaign would be cool, as would the GM deciding it's appropriate for the Inquisitor trying to clear out the decapitation cult from the underhive's tunnels to request and receive the help of a Space Marine (although possibly under the player's control).
As with any NPC, they shouldn't be overshadow the player characters though. The players won't enjoy being part of a non-interactive cut-scene.

A workable idea, would any gm consider letting me use this character?

Entirely dependent on the GM. Me personally... as you've proposed it, probably not.

The problem is that the character you've proposed is really a GM character, as it requires them to be set them up as the villain, rather than just a person of ill morals and foul goals who's part of the plot.

Many characters in Inquisitor have the potential to be "an ally in certain situations before the truth is revealed, always working towards his own goals but pretending to help one of the sides (but more than likely to shoot them in the back if it should fit his agenda)".
Quite a few of my Inquisitors have done that down the years, and it can be an interesting plot. But it doesn't work quite so well if the the "shooting people in the back" confrontation features a seven foot tall tank practically guaranteed to come out top.

As such I don't think it would work as intended without pretty good correlation of the character's goals and the plot, as well as being played with a degree of GM omniscience and fairness so that they ultimately position themselves as the villain (but without derailing the main plot).

Your suggestion is not a "player" role, in short. It could make for a very nice plot (if well written), but letting a player Marine loose in a different plot would be something of a recipe for disaster.

[TheDungen]

A fair point also the other involved players will popably suspect an ulterior motive if ther eis a payer playign the character. While a more one dimensional character as the marien would be if he didnt betray them is generally npcs.

[MarcoSkoll]

That's not too great a problem for the game - provided players remain in character and maintain character/player knowledge separation - but it would ruin the surprise, of course. And that's half the fun of springing things on the other people around the table.

[Nymie_the_Pooh]

Maybe a member of the Adeptus Sororitas instead. That scales the power level down some (the gear is still up there) and is likely to be even less expected by the other players.

[Lord Inquisitor]

A Space Marine player character is always a bit of a problem for a GM. Even if you tone down their (somewhat absurd) toughness/strength values in the book, they still ******** kill stuff. Really fast. Unless everyone you meet is toting a meltagun, stopping a space marine is pretty tough.

It can be done, typically your Space Marine should be at best only partially under your control, possibly best left entirely at the GM's control. Secondly, Space Marines of any flavour just can't walk around and not get noticed, least of all an actual Traitor Legionnaire. One confirmed sighting of a chaos marine and you're likely to have the place pulled apart and probably everything from the Arbites to Astartes up to the Ordo Malleus and the Grey Knights descending on the place in numbers.

That said, it makes for a great "boss" NPC and a recurring character to threaten the player characters with glipses or brief skirmishes to really build up the tension before the epic climactic battle at the end, well, chaos marines do the job very well as long as it makes sense in the plot for them to be there.

[TheDungen]

Let me take away the specifics, a space marine character played by a player but who's goals are not in open conflict with any of the other players and who's goals are secret to all players but himself. And also backed by very few weak allies if any. Space amrines are tough but are they able to take on entire warbands on their own?
And a fallen walking around with a big sign saying traitor marine would be incredibly stupid since there's half a dozen chapters with the singular goal of torturing him to death. Which actually makes him not very suitable for wh 40k either since being open with what he is is kind a death sentence.

[MarcoSkoll]

Space Marines are tough but are they able to take on entire warbands on their own?

Yes. In Inquisitor, Space Marines are the superhuman monsters they are in the fluff, not the heavily watered down version from WH40K. (And, in kind, an Inquisitor isn't half as good as the amped up version from WH40K.)

It does depend on what constitutes a warband, but for a 3-4 model warband following the "less is more" principle - in short, that playing with characters who have a realistic chance of failure is more interesting than playing with characters with stats so high and weapons so dangerous there's no tension because every roll they make is pretty guaranteed (In other words, don't use the often excessive random stats from the back of the book, manually generate stats using the guidelines near the start of the book) - a Space Marine can take on a warband with some reliability.

One event I was at, one guy brought along a lone Space Marine (using the much more restrained Space Marine rules Lord Inquisitor wrote for Dark Magenta 2), with old war wounds that meant he was off active duty and serving as a diplomat for Astartes interests in a major Inquisitorial election. His only weapon was a ceremonial sword - which he didn't use in combat anyway.
In one game, he took out two characters simultaneously by throwing one at the other. In another, he slapped a power sword wielding assassin (who'd already taken another character out of the game in one hit, if somewhat by luck) silly.

Now imagine that's a fully equipped and unhandicapped Marine playing intelligently - fighting back against him would become the game, distracting from whatever objectives the characters might otherwise be trying to achieve.

Heck, I've had my "mere" Battle Sister (who uses "light" AV 8 power armour and my re-written rules for bolters) make fair attempts at taking on an opposing warband alone. That's why she's the only "muscle" in my (WIP) Ecclesiarchy warband, with the others being a preacher, non-militant Sororitas and pilgrims - no-one very fighty, in short. That said, she might - only might - get a Fratis Militia friend at some point, but they're very unlikely to be used simultaneously except on special occasions.

[blackcherry]

Space Marines are at a level of power where they tend to just derail a game of inquisitor. It turns from a nice themed tabletop RPG-thing* to a game of 'how quickly can we not be killed by the space marine?'. If a few warbands take one on, they have a chance. Otherwise it usually comes down on the side of the Space marine.

As you have described him, unless all the other characters are space marines and its set in some sort of skrimish around a larger battlefield (tracking clues/stealthily disabling command posts or something; that may give help a larger narrative in joined games of 40k/epic etc), a lone CSM would be a tough task for anyone to take on. Plus, what point would he serve by being there?



*because Inqusitor is both all of those things and none of them at the same time, depending on how you play it.