Manners in Warhammer.

[kefkah]

From just having read the whole typo thing on teclis thread and how some people will,knowing that its not meant that way, do a ruling just to get a advantage, i wanted to do a post of some of the more un-spirited thing to do in warhammer.


Now, some things i dont take hard, like deploying a monster/chariot sideways to get some extra inches on the free reform. Now thats not my kind of gamestyle but i dont really care if people do it since it such a small advantage.

Having had played some tourneys, ive had come around, not the regular cheats like measuring that unit is 8 inches away and both agreeing to being somehow 9 inches next turn, to some strange and almost cheat rulings.

It has also teached me that the staff att GW stores dont know **** when it comes to rules .

The two biggest was when a GW staff did a ruling against me that my bsb with other trickster shard only makes 3 of his Phoneix Guards to reroll saves, ohwell.

The biggest was when a guy whined on me when i had seerstaph of saphery and rolling banishment with my archmage, GW staff gets called and says i cant have the same spell twice. I couldent find it, found the rule in the book when i went home, and he keept nagging me so i dropped it.

Though this is not such a cheat like enforcing a typo, more to the know-nothing GW local staff, but how common is this kind of play? and whats the worst you have seen?. Sometimes i just whant to play with my playgroup in case i meet up with one of thoose aggresive players and it dosent become such fun again.

[Ultimate Life Form]

Playing in a GW seems to invite trouble. The staff are human and it is totally understandable that they can't know everything; however they are the highest authority and you have to bow to their judgement no matter how stupid it may be. I too have witnessed them being misinformed about some very basic things. However their first and foremost interest lies not with the rules but rather with maintaining a calm and relaxed atmosphere in the shop and helping the game come along smoothly, if necessary by 'houseruling'. It is their house and their game after all. It is important that you understand that.

[kefkah]

Yeah, i know, i dont play at GW store anymore. And ofcourse i understand that, since i dident create a ruckus. I only meant, i made a list to counter or build my strategy around it, to meet a opponent who dosent like it and i get ruled out ( going to look for it in a rulebook is apperantly a nono after GW staff made a ruling) so yeah i learned my lesson. I still dont understand why they got a "hotline" to call in for rulings, or why you cant slap the BRB at them after a ruling. Thought they are very nice and serving otherwise. Clearly its not their game lol!.

I wonder if this is why mostly beginners ever go to a GW to play a game, but thats off-topic.

[Tarian]

Manners? Never grab someone's dice without asking, or touch their models without asking.

I've had people knock my models to the floor, break them, the just move off without saying anything. Ugh!

[kefkah]

Manners? Never grab someone's dice without asking, or touch their models without asking.

I've had people knock my models to the floor, break them, the just move off without saying anything. Ugh!

Woa, why would they do that, sounds uber-rude!.

But i have to say,you sound a little overprotetive with your dice fastest way make saves is just to roll the dices you got hit with.

Im not that overprotetive with my models,but yeah if your gonna look/touch asking is the best way. Well thats what i do and expeact others to do, im not the one to say no if they just gonna take away some casualites etc

[Arli]

I do not play in a GW, but I have seen my share of rules benders. I agree with the touching of models/dice. I do not care if anyone touches my models or dice, but I know some people who will actually trash their dice if someone else touches them! There is one person that occasionally plays in our club that will take an inch and stretch it to three inches. That will march with TK (which cannot march). The same guy will roll dice fast and pick them up even faster. Those dice are the hard to read kind and I have actually caught him saying that a 1 or 2 was a 5 or 6. It is so bad with this guy, that I will normally not play him. It is a running joke in our club too! Really sad.

[Lord Inquisitor]

The two biggest was when a GW staff did a ruling against me that my bsb with other trickster shard only makes 3 of his Phoneix Guards to reroll saves, ohwell.

There are exactly zero rules in the rulebook to cover how you deal with resolving hits against enemies in base contact with identical stats but differentially affected by a special rule like this. It's in desperate need of a FAQ. There are quite a few possible interpretations of how this should work and oddly enough the interpretation that only the models in base contact should have to re-roll is a common one. It was a perfectly reasonable interpretation.

But you need to understand that GW staff's interest is really just to get the game moving and speaking as an ex-staffer, most of the time you just wanted to resolve it quickly, you have better things to be doing relating to your actual job. You might have more reason to complain about a tournament judge who makes a wrong call but even then judges have to make a call and not being perfect, wrong calls happen. There's no point in dwelling on such things.

[-Totenkopf-]

only a problem if you're using loaded dice...

[Tarian]

Woa, why would they do that, sounds uber-rude!.

But i have to say,you sound a little overprotetive with your dice fastest way make saves is just to roll the dices you got hit with.

Im not that overprotetive with my models,but yeah if your gonna look/touch asking is the best way. Well thats what i do and expeact others to do, im not the one to say no if they just gonna take away some casualites etc

Don't know why they didn't stop, I didn't get upset, though a "I'm sorry" would have been appreciated.

As for the dice, it's a superstition. They always roll better if they're rolled by your opponent!

EDIT: And they're most definitely not loaded, I just don't like people touching my dice! (Especially if they didn't ask.)

[kefkah]

Just to make it clear, i mostly got irritated that i couldent flip through the rulebook, as in the case of having the same spells twice,and i understood that it was his rule as i whent on the game. I dont hold it against the GW-staff, i just dont like to go to my local GW to play games anymore. Having spent the money and the time to be able to play the game, the best way wouldent be to make up stuff if you dont know the rule. But as you said, better not to dwell on such thing.

[WyattEarp]

There is one person that occasionally plays in our club that will take an inch and stretch it to three inches. That will march with TK (which cannot march). The same guy will roll dice fast and pick them up even faster. Those dice are the hard to read kind and I have actually caught him saying that a 1 or 2 was a 5 or 6.

I played in a league for a few months in my old FLGS, there were a few guys there like that, and they made playing the game no fun whatsoever. They are usually the biggest rules lawyers and the biggest benders of rules *edit* Not to mention that they would try to get over on me, because I was a beginner *edit*. I pretty much stick to my small group of friends that play at this point. I play Warhammer for fun, and as soon as it stops being fun, I stop playing.

To me, the worst thing I can think of is trying to pop into a FLGS to try to get a game...Personally I'd rather go without a game. It's sad that as much as I want to be social with my Warhammer addiction, it seems to me the average in-store players are not the people I want to be social with. In my experience, whenever I walk into a new store, I get met with the standard group of store-rats that "Mean Mug" me, as if I just walked in their front door, opened their fridge and slapped their mom. Granted that's not always the case, but I would say about 80% of the time for me. Not to mention the general lack of hygiene that some of those gentleman tend to display...that usually puts me off from wanting to talk to them, much less spend 2 hours playing a game with them.

Since we're talking about manners, I would say that most of the time the under 18's in the stores tend to have horrific manners, and an even worse idea of personal space...I've had kids start going through my bag pulling out models while I was waiting on a league game. Any wonder why I don't play at those stores anymore?

Sorry for the rant...guess I got a little off topic.

[kefkah]

To me, the worst thing I can think of is trying to pop into a FLGS to try to get a game...Personally I'd rather go without a game. It's sad that as much as I want to be social with my Warhammer addiction, it seems to me the average in-store players are not the people I want to be social with. In my experience, whenever I walk into a new store, I get met with the standard group of store-rats that "Mean Mug" me, as if I just walked in their front door, opened their fridge and slapped their mom. Granted that's not always the case, but I would say about 80% of the time for me. Not to mention the general lack of hygiene that some of those gentleman tend to display...that usually puts me off from wanting to talk to them, much less spend 2 hours playing a game with them.

Wow, you sum it up with words pretty good with words!. I remember when i only had one mate playing warhammer ( im in a very good and friendly gaming-club now) was on vacation and i whent to a non GW store to play, and you summed my exp very good, specially the "mean mug". I dont really get it with that "store" mentality.

[Urgat]

Played once at a (not local at all) GW store, won't do it again. For some reason the staff decreted that we would be playing w/o magic items, so I say fine, my opponent goes sure, fine. We deploy, and my opponent (skaven player) puts down... Ikkit Claw IIRC. That was 5th ed, for those who were already playing then, they probably remember how murderous SC could be back then. So of course I object, because to me, obviously, SC would have been out too if magic items are out, since they themselves have magic items. Opponent tells me that, well, he didn't buy a magic item, and lo and behold! the staff agrees with HIM. Well I'd come a long way to play there, so I "played" nonetheless. Got crushed to bits obviously, never rolled a dice in a GW store again after that. I still go to my local store every once in a blue moon, and the various bands of noisy pre-pubescent apes that are stuck to the gaming tables with their countless variations of space marines really don't make me want to ever try that experience again >>

[WyattEarp]

Yeah, that's another of my major issues with the GW stores...Fantasy are the bastard step-children. But I get what Urgat means about the 'Home Team'. I'm a stranger when I walk in the door, those guys know the staff because they're probably in the store half the day, every day. Why would the staff side with someone who might not ever show back up, and piss off the guy that's there every day?

In my opinion, the reason why this hobby seems to be dying has nothing to do with cost...it has to do with the community. If I hadn't played the game before and walked into a GW store, which for some is a huge step due to the stigma of being considered a nerd, and are met with semi-hostility by the 'local trolls'...that would really put me off buying ANYTHING, much less staying for a introductory game... I was introduced to Warhammer back in the mid 90's, but didn't play and never stepped foot in a GW until I lived in the UK in 2006. Luckily, the store in went to in the UK had a very good staff, and a very accepting community...also helped that I was an American and could bring them Mt. Dew...but I was a novelty, so I was accepted easily. When I got back to the states, I went to the Local GW and it was the complete opposite...granted the staff was as cordial as necessary...but the players made it seem like I was about as welcome as a roving band of Orcs.

Anyways, I digress...I'm currently deployed, I normally live in Northern VA...I need to find me a few more players to play against that doesn't require me to step foot in a GW to play. I'm not a pro, I'm not a power gamer...so if anyone lives in that area and knows of a good Fantasy group...let me know!

Cheers!

[The bearded one]

That sounds unlike the Gw experience I have. When a new person comes in to play a game, we'd welcome him with open arms, so that he might ocassionaly keep popping in. I like adding a new player to the circle, your local group can only give you so much untill dejavu sets in.

[Moss]

...
It has also teached me that the staff att GW stores dont know **** when it comes to rules .

...

Though this is not such a cheat like enforcing a typo, more to the know-nothing GW local staff...

This kind of talk/thinking kinda bothers me. Remember that these guys are basically mall employess. I mean, maybe the store isn't necessarily located IN a mall, but they work in retail. At it's core, it's a crap job (just like any retail job) for which they probably get paid like $10/hr (or less). Sure, they get to be surrounded by the hobby that they (hopefully) love, but it's still a retail job.

That said, it's also hard to expect them to know the rules any more than you do. In addition to their normal duties, you expect them to have ALL the rules to multiple gaming systems (and army books) memorized? Like Lord Inquisitor said, they have better things to do relating to their actual job. It's especially hard to expect them to know the rules better than you do because all of you people lurking online message boards spend as much time immersed in the hobby than they do.

[kefkah]

This kind of talk/thinking kinda bothers me. Remember that these guys are basically mall employess. I mean, maybe the store isn't necessarily located IN a mall, but they work in retail. At it's core, it's a crap job (just like any retail job) for which they probably get paid like $10/hr (or less). Sure, they get to be surrounded by the hobby that they (hopefully) love, but it's still a retail job.

That said, it's also hard to expect them to know the rules any more than you do. In addition to their normal duties, you expect them to have ALL the rules to multiple gaming systems (and army books) memorized? Like Lord Inquisitor said, they have better things to do relating to their actual job. It's especially hard to expect them to know the rules better than you do because all of you people lurking online message boards spend as much time immersed in the hobby than they do.

Well then why do a ruling and you cant look up the rulebook for?. Granted, they wont know all the rules, but lets take the example with seerstaph, wich my then army list was based on. The other guy said i couldent,called GW guy, and he said i couldent also. When i went into the rulebook i got scolded so i dropped it. And i decided not to play there anymore, i just wrote the reason, besides the crowd that is usally there, why i dont like to game at a GW store. I wasent unfriendly but decided to drop it even though i knew he was wrong and my army was based behind banishment.

Not even being allowed to find it in the rulebook cause you hold up the game is a pretty lame excuse, and it aint like i was a rule-lawyer.

The comment about they dont know **** about the rules is that they have a rule hotline you can call and supposedly are the highest authority when almost everyone i talked to knows that each single staffer gives a diffrent view of the rules you ask.Well i dont really care since i dont play at a GW store. I dont buy there anymore even,not that it matters.

[Lord Dan]

Actually exploiting loopholes are the things that bother me the most, primarily because they detract from the ability to lose yourself in a game. I couldn't care less if my opponent blew away all my characters in one turn with Dwellers, because it gives us all a laugh and a chance to shout "It's Chaos!", but I'm going to be really pissed if I see him deploy his chariot sideways to pick up a couple inches.

[Moss]

Haha, does everyone actually shout, "It's chaos?" Because I think I'd really like to play with you and your friends.

[Lord Dan]

You know it's funny you mentioned it, because we really do. We delight in the silliness of Warhammer, from statues that shoot laser beams from their eyes frying a unit of cold one knights (well, 7 of 10 models) to a mage attempting to cast a buff spell on a unit he was with in a building only to miscast and roll double ones, detonating himself and killing everyone inside the building (we laughed for some time at the thought of the tower spontaneously exploding and everyone nearby standing and staring with quizzical looks). We love these moments because they're memorable; far more so than any average win or loss.

In fact the most memorable game I've ever played was with my Dark Elves against a friend's Warriors of Chaos. It became clear early on that I was going to win, and he ended up making some crazy last-ditch charges in an attempt to win. Realizing that I wasn't enjoying myself either, I starting making silly charges myself, justifying it by making it part of the story:

"My BSB will declare a charge against your spawn."
"Just the BSB? Not the unit of black guard he's with?"
"Of course not. That spawn reminded him of his childhood."
"His childhood?"
"You see he was picked on as a child. He was called names growing up and never had any friends."
"I see."
"Indeed. You must understand that this spawn reminds him of everything wrong in the world. This is a daemon he must face on his own."
"Then let him face it."
"CHARGE!!!"

Anyway, we make a good time of it, because what's the point otherwise? Were I trying to make a competition of something I would choose an activity that was far more reputable which involved significantly fewer references to "wood elves" and "winds of magic".