Been hearing people saying how hard it is for nids to deal with mass flyers but wouldn't this work? Take 9 zoans to get as many puppet powers as possible which shouldn't be too hard because they have two powers each and have to re-roll rolls of 5-6. Then take control of a flyer and shoot at the other flyers. Then for your 2nd power take psychic scream so then it's like having 9 dooms. Anyone tried it does it work?
thts a lot of points to invest. twinlinked devs on big bugs or lots of hive guard might be best bet - hope for that 6 though which is rare
edit: taak looked at psy powers for nids too, certainly seems an option but i would think 9 zoeys is to much unless 2000+ pts
Last edited by Chair126; 14-07-2012 at 15:33. Reason: add link
The problem with even puppet master is the 24" range, since those vendetta lascannons have 48" range and they really have no reason not to just sit at 48" until all our MCs are dead, they can then use your superior move speed to drop off any crew inside.Originally Posted by Adam87
The solutions we need are ones with 48" range unfortunately.
Flyers can't "sit". I haven't really tried to play against them, but I can only imagine that manouvering them is harder than it looks on paper. 45 degree front arc and moving minimum 18 inches, you're bound to end up somewhere you might not want to be.
The range isn't an issue because as stated they can't stay still plus with moving 6" that's a range of 30". Flyers do have great speed but only in a straight line. It is a lot of points but they are good vs everything were as hive guard are only good at killing tanks and pretty crap at killing flyers.
The range isn't an issue because as stated they can't stay still plus with moving 6" that's a range of 30". Flyers do have great speed but only in a straight line. It is a lot of points but they are good vs everything were as hive guard are only good at killing tanks and pretty crap at killing flyers.
The range isn't an issue because as stated they can't stay still plus with moving 6" that's a range of 30". Flyers do have great speed but only in a straight line. It is a lot of points but they are good vs everything were as hive guard are only good at killing tanks and pretty crap at killing flyers.
That's not true. Vandetta can hover, which turns them into skimmers, and dealing with up to 9 AV12 vehicles is not exactly easy.
As for people complaining about psychic power's range - I don't see why you can't just put the Zoens in pods...
Also, something Nids can do against an all-out flyer spam is just cop it on the chin and hold out until end game. 9 Vendetta in anything but a 2k game means they'll be fielding those things and not much else. 27 TL lascannons is scare for the big stuff, but between cover and FNP, even 9 vendetta will struggle to properly clear out large amounts of nid scoring horde.
Last edited by Infidel; 15-07-2012 at 05:47.
Compilation of my Necron Batrep detailing the conquest of the Sautekh Empire - The Sautekh Chronicles
"You are but ephemeral whereas we are forever"
- Imhotekh the Stormlord
Puppet master is nice but it has many a weakness, you cannot turn the vehicles, so if the enemy isn't looking at each other with his fliers, you won't see them.
Vandetta is likely to be the most common flier since....its the best one. It can hover so it doesn't need to come closer than 48" from you. The other fliers are a lot less interesting but a threat non the less.
Sure you can pod your zoans out to the far flank where the fliers are, you then have 1 turn of fire to take care of them and if you fail they will fly away and most likely your zoans are out of range to do a whole lot of anything all game long. It seems a risky solution. Very expensive.
I doubt 9 vandettas will be too common, maybe on a tournament list or two, but even if the enemy just takes 3 which is the amount you can take as allies, that is 9 tl lascannons a turn which really hurt.
Their role is to take out your MCs/ravs/warriors/hive guard. After that they can concentrate on the objectives, if they want they can fill their cargo bays with units with flamers to take out the rest.
It's a rough deal for tyranids until we get some anti-flier models.
I really don't see the enemy putting their models in a way that puppet master would allow 1 flier to shoot on another, just no reason for it.
Psychic powers will work occasionally but I think vandettas won't really have to worry about them.
Just been flicking though the rules and as far as I can tell Puppet master actually requires a roll to hit. Focus witchfire explicitly states that it follows the standard witchfire rules, which include rolling to hit!
With that in mind, Objuration Mechanicum might be the way to go, as a malediction it doesn't roll to hit, works very well against squadrens and has the added benifit of reducing their fire output it you don't manage to kill them in one turn. The big issue is you need to be in range at the start of your turn and it can't be used the turn you arrive from reserves. I suppose you could hope to get 1 with gate to infinity and just cast it before Objuration (as they happen at the same time), gives an effective range of 48" and should usually strip 2 hull points off the whole unit of fliers. Not idea but might be the best we've got.
Kaptin Blacksquig
Loot the World!
I can't believe you guys are complaining about this, your codex is full of FMcs, just Vector Strike them to death
Also while you can't use gun emplacements, they can fire on their own at BS2
True, the 9 Vendetta and Necron fly spam lists are going to hurt a LOT, but that goes for just about everyone
The thing is FMCs are hugely expensive (min 230 for a 4 wound flying tyrant and don't get me started on harpies) and Vector Strike just isn't much good at taking out fliers. D3 Str 5/6 hits on side armour is fine against the AV10 fliers, but anything tougher than that will just shrug it off.
Kaptin Blacksquig
Loot the World!
This man speaks the thruth.
Even in the case of Daemon, where we can take more and better FMCs than Nids, Vector strike just doesn't cut it.
Compilation of my Necron Batrep detailing the conquest of the Sautekh Empire - The Sautekh Chronicles
"You are but ephemeral whereas we are forever"
- Imhotekh the Stormlord
The issue is the mission were fast attack are scoring. At 1750pts my friend takes a company command, 2 platoon command, 2 50 man blob squads with 5 melta, 5 autocannons, 6 vendettas in squads of 2s. Because Of how hard they are to move he outflanks one or two squads. If the zoans just make him hover I'm happy because at least I can charge his vendettas with flying hive tyrants. Gun placements are far too easy to kill for afew BS2 shots. Flyers are not to bad for other books because they have their own flyers or can have an allie with anti air.
D3+1 S6 vector strikes vs av12 vendettas will do jack, if the fliers were av10/11 as they should be it would be fine but the IG vendettas don't follow the rules.
Gun placements fire at the closest unit at bs2, this will never be a flier
Neither of these work unfortunately. S6 devs vs rear armour is fine but that is only if the enemy wants you to fire on his rear armour, otherwise he stays at 48".
The truth of the matter is GW added fliers but they won't add anti-flier to most lists until they get their next codex. Now whether your army gets a new book now or 4 years from now is just up to them. Tyranids tend to be an early release though.
I wouldn't be surprised if they did tyranids after chaos and tau, so if we are lucky maybe a year or 18 months and we get our anti-flyer guns. Things haven't been that great for tyranids for a few years now, I guess another 18 months is not the end of the world.
I will be playing my chaos until then.
Last edited by Vsurma; 16-07-2012 at 07:10.
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