Dreadnoughts in 6'th edition, Are they worth it?

[Merellin]

So I realy like Dreadnoughts but I was wondering, Are they worth it in 6'th edition with hullpoints and all? Would a Dreadnought heavy army be viable at all or would it be horribly bad?

[Nurgling Chieftain]

Dreadnoughts got hammered. Not only hull points, but the relative ease of striking them with grenades. The broken dreadnoughts - psyfilemen and twin-claw furiosos - are still useable, and maybe even Ironclads, but I'd be really dubious about bringing any walker with an armor value below 13 anywhere near close combat. Venerables basically lost their reason for existing.

[Battleworthy Arts]

Contemptors. All the way.

[Merellin]

I always had this idea of making a Dreadnought heavy Blood Angels army with all sorts of Dreadnoughts. But 6'th edition kind of made me realy hesitant to the idea.. And the only Dreadnought I know of with AV 13 is Bjorn the Fell-handed. I never used him in my Space Wolf army though..

[ChaplainCharlie]

But Sentinels remain the ever cheap and cheerful solution... Har har har!

[Kloud13]

If you have a flyer coming in, it might be usefull putting a Ironclad with 2 hvy flamers in a Drop-pod. Hopefully you will be able to take out the Gun emplacement in the Aegis Defence line.

I might even be tempted to have 2 Ironclads in pods, and a third pod filled with whatever. my 2nd Dread would have the 2 melta guns. Drop the two Ironclads, and nuke the AA units.

[lantzkev]

they didn't take that big of a hit, most troops can't do anything to them still except for the meltas and heavy weapons, anyone thinking they suddenly became god aweful thought they were better than they ever were before, because they weren't that amazing before.

[MagicHat]

lantzkev, they are hit by grenades by WS comparision, almost every SM unit carries krak grenades that can glance them to death and if immobilised, they are hit on their rear facing.
How did they become better?

I always had this idea of making a Dreadnought heavy Blood Angels army with all sorts of Dreadnoughts. But 6'th edition kind of made me realy hesitant to the idea.. And the only Dreadnought I know of with AV 13 is Bjorn the Fell-handed. I never used him in my Space Wolf army though..

Furioso/librarian dreadnoughts in the BA elite section is 13/12/10.

[hobojebus]

I took a mortis pattern in my first game of 6th, it survived only losing a single hull point and more than made up its points, it killed a landspeeder earning me first blood in a VP game, slaughtered a librarian and pulped a number of scouts aswell as chipping away at other vehicles.

If you charge them at the enemy without using cover yes expect them to die fast, if your smart though and make sure its not in LoS of all your opponents heavy weapons they can still do their part.

[Friedrich von Offenbach]

i had a great battle between two venerable dreads once. They hacked at each other untill they were both imobilised, lost their close combat weapons and got shuck/stunned a million times it was silly, but fun at the same time. In 6th however this fight would have been over in the first turn, and i think dreads are going to be like all veichles in that all weapons are just as dangerous (doesnt matter if their s4 or 10

[Rick Blaine]

lantzkev, they are hit by grenades by WS comparision, almost every SM unit carries krak grenades that can glance them to death and if immobilised, they are hit on their rear facing.
How did they become better?

You need 12 guys attacking to get one glance with kraks on average. Hardly the terrible disaster you make it out to be.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

Krak grenades are more than a factor of ten better than they used to be in terms of destroying, not merely glancing, which wasn't very effective in 5th. A squad of ten with a handy 'fist will very likely drop an A12 dread in three turns, whereas before you might average six.

[Rick Blaine]

Well, there were few things as pointless as those never ending combats where the Dread squished 1 guy a turn all game long, so no loss there.

[vlad78]

Well, there were few things as pointless as those never ending combats where the Dread squished 1 guy a turn all game long, so no loss there.

And changing the rules so that dreads dies in one or two turns most of the time is better, isn't it?

Anything with less than AV 12 has a very very very limited lifespan. Necrons and dark eldars just laught at them, Tau do the same and demons with nurgle templates do either. Guards are so numerous that they'll eat them alive.

You need 12 guys attacking to get one glance with kraks on average. Hardly the terrible disaster you make it out to be.

You do not take into account that marine sergents usually have a melta (if they don't they should) which hits at normal WS. So with just a little luck, against a tactical squad of 10 marines, that's one penetrating hit and one glancing first turn. If your Dread already suffered a hit before, he's toasted. If not, chances are he'll be toasted the second turn either by hull point losses or by the meltabomb.

dread were never really though and now they are very weak.

[Kenzaburo]

see, and that's were you are making interesting assumptions: marine sergeants usually have melta? not where i live. melta bombs are rarely seen around my place and especially among my group.

it's more of the standard "internet makes up a problem in a very specific set of circumstances and generalises it" fare. it's the same with that rumored huge amount of guard players, all marine tac squads having power fists and all that jazz. that is NOT the standard everywhere! some people like their sergeants with power weapons or sometimes mere chainswords.

[Banville]

Plus a fully kitted out unit of marines, with fist (which you'll see much much less of now) and meltas, tops out at a little over 200 points. That's a fair trade, point for point.

[RunepriestRidcully]

So are chaos contemptors stil any good?

[Charax]

Depends entirely on whether you count losing a hull point as one of the "effects of a glancing hit"

[ManOfRust]

Just dropping by, I don't play much 40k at the moment as I am still re-building my brettonians for fantasy but I did see an interesting tactic take shape whilst I was in my local GW yesterday.

Blood Angels Dread was stuck in combat with 14-odd CSM and an aspiring champion w/powerfist, that number of krak grenades with the powerfist on top would have ended the combat pretty fast except that the BA player had also charged in his librarian, challenging the champ and taking him out. I didn't stay long enough to see how it played out but it seemed like a pretty good combo strategy, maybe GW is just trying to make people use their dreads in a slightly different way?

[xxRavenxx]

@ManOfRust:

My thoughts exactly. A dread in combat strikes me as something which needs support, not a one man killing machine. (It never was, lets face it.)

Next time a marine book rolls round, I'm hoping they gain an attack or drop a few points, to make them a little more worthwhile, but otherwise, they're decent enough.