4+ Ward Save on an Emperor Dragon

[The bearded one]

Gentlemen such as The Bearded One and ULF conveyed their concerns and criticism without malice and with reserved judgement.

I don't think there's anything daft with the idea of treasure-hording monsters actually using some of it. An army of monster created from the storm of magic book is lacking in proper ranked units that are capable of holding the line anyway and such an army seems a 'for fun' thing anyway.

[Bloodedsoul]

Let us know how it turns out, I think it sounds like fun and might see if any one at the local shop wants to give it a shot

[Sh4d0w]

It sure was my hope to get castigated for sharing a discussionI had with a friend, asking the public its opinion, and trying to reach a consensus. Now I'm being called an idiot...for THINKING something.

It's not like I am demanding MY emperor dragon have a 4+ ward save. You can call m selfish if you want for the magic items allowance to magic using Monsters in a Monster Army, but not for demanding a 4+ ward save (because I didn't demand it, I had other sneaky plans like, as I said in previous posts, the Other Trickster's Shard to give him Blessing headaches). My friend brought it up as his first concern and, naturally, friends sometimes disagree. Gentlemen such as The Bearded One and ULF conveyed their concerns and criticism without malice and with reserved judgement. You're just fishing to type-cast me as some powergaming ****** without contributing anything to the discussion.

But you're right. I am a power gamer that imposes my reality on my games or else I throw a tantrum and throw my $50 dollar models against the wall. I play vanilla Orcs and Goblins because all the top tournament players had internet lists that told me that blocks of vanilla Orcs supported by snotlings and Orc Arrer Boyz is the way to win in 8th edition. Only they don't. So I amended the rules make all their stats 10, with 1+ armor and 2+ ward saves and no animosity. Oh and everything is 5 points cheaper. And my giants are free. And my trolls aren't stupid because my slave Dwarf Runesmith inscribed the Rune of Intellect on their stony hides. Oh and I also have auto-irresistible-cast-sans-miscast Dwellers, Purple Sun and Mindrazor each time I fart because, you know, I'm Gork (or Mork). Now OnG are balanced with those changes. I win. Yay! I am absolved of my sins and have actualized my immortal Self.



At it's core, I felt that an army of MONSTERS would struggle against a standard army because of the lack of rank and file. Without tinkering with core rules such as how much CR is gained from flanks, rears or charging, I thought magic items would make the battle more interesting. Naturally, this is only assuming that Monsters do need help. When we do play this game I'll do it without magic items first. I suspect that a Ward on a Dragon won't stop it from losing combat and being run down if unsupported.

By the by, I have suggested that his whole army should have Devastating Charge without any points increase to see if it'd have more success breaking units on the charge. Like the Monster Army, we might test this out, too, because neither of us care much for winning (in over 100 games through 3 editions, we're pretty evenly matched) and aren't afraid to try new things.

/nerdrage sorry

woah haha, I don't see where I called you an idiot. I was merely pointing out that removing a weakness of something just imbalances the game and that surely you can avoid the HKB guy.

Also imho a monster should be able to carry a magic ring/pendant or something like that but not weapons.

[Skopey]

Well i dont think you need to assume the dragon is 'using' a particular magic item. Rather that the dragon has the same particular ability as the magic item. I wouldnt mind so much if playing against a dragon using the abilities tbh. Dragons are supposed to be Mystical, powerful creatures so why not i say. If 4+ ward seems to powerful go for something similar to the Blessing. 6+ vs normal attacks, 5+vs magic and 4+ vs attacks S7+ perhaps. At the end of the day it will be an unusual game that is gonna get house ruled whatever way you play so why not add your own designed rules for the game. So long as your opponent is happy with it. I mean maybe add a rule for him that he gets double XP for every monster slain or something.

[Antipathy]

@ Bingo, of course it's 100% more wounds. You have a 50% chance to save a wound. Put into perspective, that is 1 wound taken for every 2 wounds caused. Hence, you essentially need to double the amount of wounds caused.

Why not use a Poison Emperor Dragon? Regrowth, Lifebloom, Regeneration and Immunity to Miscast enough to keep him alive? Or a Carmine Emperor Dragon to shoot Cannonballs into him, or a Warpfire Dragon to shoot Stone Thrower Templates into the enemy unit.

[Bingo the Fun Monkey]

Ok, you're right. The way I was looking at it was that if a normal dragon took 6 wounds, it would have 3 remaining, effectively giving it 9 wounds and therefore 50% more. Flawed logic in a vacuum .

[GrandmasterWang]

Seconding the 4+ ward = double wounds correction. Its just too much. Why not a 6+ ward?

Anyway, I for one like your style and we house rule with my friends in home/casual games all the time throwing in random beasties and all kinds of trippy stuff (last night we played with a mid board christmas tree granting regrowth on a roll of 6 within 2 inches). Seriously dont think the monsters will need that much of a buff as someone who has effectively played what you are going to, just not with bretonians or an emperor dragon. I say give him and any other "boss" monster a 6+ ward save so they hav a small suspense filled chance to stop a hkb which shouldnt crop up anyway. The thing is that with the monster army you can dominate the movement phase with the march and turn so steadfast is overated and wont last long with a few beasts in there anyway

[Ratarsed]

I'm pretty sure a 4+ ward =/= 100% more wounds. I'm not that hot on probabilities but I bet there is a significant difference between 10 wounds and a 4+ ward and 20 wounds. Not sure what that might be however.

[Skopey]

not with my dice it isn't

[Lord Zarkov]

I'm pretty sure a 4+ ward =/= 100% more wounds. I'm not that hot on probabilities but I bet there is a significant difference between 10 wounds and a 4+ ward and 20 wounds. Not sure what that might be however.

The mean number of wounds to kill is the same (once the armour save is accounted for), but the distribution and standard deviation is different.

So a 20 wound monster would always take 20 wounds to kill, with a zero s.d.; but a 10 wound monster with a 4+ ward could take any number greater than or equal to 10, depending on how lucky they player is. So could be 10, could be 100, but in an infinite number of games the average would tend to 20.

[Ratarsed]

And the more wounds the less likely luck will come into play. Failing 3 out of 3 ward saves is not that unlikely. Failing 10 out of 10 is very unlikely.
Having thought about it more, I suppose if you pick the magic items carefuly they would not be out of place. Something like the other tricksters shard for instance could be caught up in the monsters fur/scales without it actively knowing it was there.
I'd still try out the first game as is, just to see how it goes. Often stuff you don't forsee can suprise you and significantly effect the game.