wish-listing for fallout 4

[Spell_of_Destruction]

I just think that everyone who complains about not liking "Elder Scrolls with Guns" as FO3/NV get called are missing a major point, and that is without Bethesda and Fallout 3 the series would be dead, I'd never have gotten into it nor would millions of other gamers. Fallout would be a fond memory but nothing more for a relatively small cult following.

I don't think they're missing a major point. I think maybe you're placing an importance of things that aren't important to a lot of people who enjoyed the originals. Along with Planescape Torment the original games really brought a new level of high concept into gaming. The fact that millions of people bought a game with Fallout slapped on the front of it isn't high on my list of priorities.

This is always the case when something with a cult following changes to a more mainstream style. Most old fans don't like the change and a host of new fans comes along and can't really understand what the old fans are so upset about. We hear justifications of "things change man" and "keeping with the times". Ultimately the protests of the old fans and the justifications of the new fans are irrelevant - the change happened. You either like it or you don't.

I'm pretty ambivalent towards Fallout 3. It was an enoyable enough game and was aesthetically pretty stunning. Saying that, I find it curious that the game worlds in Fallout 1 and 2 seem so much more rich despite the fact they are considerably less detailed. I only played Fallout 3 once and had no particular desire to go back and play it again once I had explored most of the game world. I have played through Fallout 1 and 2 at least half a dozen times each.

There are also a whole list of flaws I can attribute to Fallout 3 completely independently of the existence of Fallout 1 and 2 but I don't want to go into those. The only one I should mention is the combat system which is awful...but then I don't think that RPG and FPS is ever going to mix well. My problem is less with what they did to the Fallout franchise and more with Beth's games in general. They're RPGs marketed to FPS fans. I like FPS games but if I play an RPG I want an RPG not a b*stardised RPG/FPS. Strangely I don't mind as much if the game is more FPS with RPG elements - Deus Ex was great.

But yeah - I can live with the fact that it didn't meet my expectations. It doesn't eat me up inside or anything!

Ermm, make it isometric and turn-based again.

Turn based is probably out of the question, but I don't see why they couldn't add in a 'continuous turn based' mode like they had in Fallout Tactics. This would essentially work like many other RPGVGs.

For those who didn't play tactics, events happen in real time similar to an RTS (you click on enemy units you want to target). The turn based element is that your character can only perform actions when he has sufficient action points to do so (these recharge at a rate dependent on your character's stats/abilities). The key thing is that the accuracy of your shots is based on your character's skill rather than whether or not you are an FPS whizz. VATS was the token gesture to fans of the old turn based but it was crap because in the latter stages of the game combat was just a case of fatal head shot after fatal headshot (until you started facing off against those stupidly hard enemies in the expansions which basically involved running backwards while trying to pull off headshots).

[emperorpenguin]

They are missing the point if they are asking for a new Fallout which ignores 3 & NV, the old style is no longer commercially viable. Who in their right mind would ignore the huge sales of the past two games in order to return to isometric?

We hear justifications of "things change man"

except War ;-)

I have had the opposite experience playing the games, as I have not even finished 1&2, but have put something in the order of 2000 hours into 3&NV

[DarthSte]

Still hoping for the originals to be updated and released on iPad...

[Spell_of_Destruction]

They are missing the point if they are asking for a new Fallout which ignores 3 & NV, the old style is no longer commercially viable. Who in their right mind would ignore the huge sales of the past two games in order to return to isometric?

except War ;-)

I have had the opposite experience playing the games, as I have not even finished 1&2, but have put something in the order of 2000 hours into 3&NV

I don't think anyone in their right mind would expect the game to revert back to isometric now. But you will always hear a lot of dissenting voices when something is changed to something very different from what it once was. In between the polarised opinions I think the truth is found - the series needed modern treatment but at the same time I don't think that Bethesda's RPG lite style was ever going to lend itself well to the Fallout series (in terms of preserving the spirit of the old games - I'm sure there are some people who prefer what it has become), as pure a p 'n' p style RPG as you're likely to find on any system.

As for sales - yes, money rules the world. But sales aren't necessarily an indicator of quality.

I haven't actually tried NV yet (wish I could but just can't find the time) although I hear that it is far more in keeping with the spirit of the old games. Still stuck with the same crappy combat system though!

[Voss]

I'm pretty ambivalent towards Fallout 3. It was an enoyable enough game and was aesthetically pretty stunning. Saying that, I find it curious that the game worlds in Fallout 1 and 2 seem so much more rich despite the fact they are considerably less detailed. I only played Fallout 3 once and had no particular desire to go back and play it again once I had explored most of the game world. I have played through Fallout 1 and 2 at least half a dozen times each.

I think the major problem with 3 was that it just dumped every element of the original (super mutants, brotherhood, deathclaws, etc, plus the enclave from 2) into the DC area without rhyme or reason, regardless of whether or not those elements made sense. It wasn't a coherent game in its own right, just another shooter with a nostalgia angle.

[emperorpenguin]

Well Tactics had already established that the BOS had moved east, so that's not far fetched. The Enclave were always likely to have more bases especially at Raven Rock. Deathclaws: not sure what the problem is with them? The Super Mutants are ok too, only one facility in the entire USA working on FEV, not likely.

[BorderKing]

Agree with you about 3 and NV - once you'd left the vault, 3 kind of pushed you to go to Megaton and do the bomb quest to get you a house so you could have somewhere to drop off all the rubbish you picked up and couldn't sell because the traders didn't have enough cash, but if you didn't want to go that way, you didn't have to do so.

I hated this in Skyrim as well. They need to fix vendors so you don't always run into this stupid issue of vendors having no money. I hated having to wait a week just to sell some rubbish I had . It really detracted from the experience. Admittedly people not having alot of money is going to occur in the wasteland, but someone who has infinite money in the wasteland would be good, so you could collect your stuff and sell it to them. Like the crab in Morrowind.They could do a credit system with vendors, or you could get a base where you leave your stuff and then a companion in the base could go sell the rubbish for you.

Come to think of it, having a base of operations would be good to have. The elder scrolls ( from at least 3) has had housing so why not Fallout. I know I generally end up picking a house as a base of operations and leaving all my cool, but not useful at the time stuff in it.

[emperorpenguin]

I'm confused, Fallout 3 had a choice of Megaton house or Tenpenny suite. You also had the spaceship in Mothership Zeta.

New Vegas gave you the Lucky 38, plus Safehouses, The Sink, The Tops, Novac.

So Fallout does give you housing

[stormblade]

I just thought of another thing that would be useful; separate savegames for different characters (like in dragonage) my brother and I both use the same computer and sometimes play the same games. There had been a few quicksave accidents already.

[emperorpenguin]

I accidentally went over one of my character saves, luckily it wasnt my 200 hour ones or I'd have been really peeved. My brother did lose his main character in FO3 when his young son saved over his game. Though I blame him for letting a small kid play an age 18 game

[Sai-Lauren]

I hated this in Skyrim as well. They need to fix vendors so you don't always run into this stupid issue of vendors having no money. I hated having to wait a week just to sell some rubbish I had . It really detracted from the experience. Admittedly people not having alot of money is going to occur in the wasteland, but someone who has infinite money in the wasteland would be good, so you could collect your stuff and sell it to them. Like the crab in Morrowind.They could do a credit system with vendors, or you could get a base where you leave your stuff and then a companion in the base could go sell the rubbish for you.

Probably deliberate - otherwise you'd just wander off to the Super-Duper Mart, pick up all the empty cans, drink bottles and all the other rubbish that's around there, and bring it all back to sell to Moira, getting you rich fairly early on, and presumably you're supposed to use items to effectively barter for ammo, stimpacks, the house upgrades and equipment repairs.

Come to think of it, having a base of operations would be good to have. The elder scrolls ( from at least 3) has had housing so why not Fallout. I know I generally end up picking a house as a base of operations and leaving all my cool, but not useful at the time stuff in it.

You've obviously not done the Megaton Bomb quest then - the reward for completion is a house.

However, you can only have the one house, and I'd have loved one somewhere close to Raven Rock, just for all the goodies you can haul out with you, rather than having to trek all the way home, across the wasteland, at a speed of no more than 2 feet an hour .

[emperorpenguin]

Unless you pick the perk which allows fast travel when encumbered. I love the Transportalponder in Old World Blues for that ability to drop off heavy stuff

[Sai-Lauren]

Unless you pick the perk which allows fast travel when encumbered. I love the Transportalponder in Old World Blues for that ability to drop off heavy stuff

You mean Long Haul - but that's only available in New Vegas, not Fallout 3.

[emperorpenguin]

Ah yes silly me. I actually never picked it anyway, kind of felt like cheating and anyway by the time you can pick it I'd amassed so many caps and cool gear, I was choosy about what to carry

[C. Langana]

I can't get my mind of how good a Fallout: Albion/London or something along those lines could be.

[MyNameDidntFit]

But I think playing as a super mutant would be pretty broken; you'd be able to take and deal huge amounts of damage, but you'd be pretty stupid. Youd'd never be able to pick locks, hack or pass most speech tests. And you'd be shunned by most npc's/citites. If handled well, I suppose it could work, you be a sort of smarter, friendlier mutuant, a la Marcus, but I still don't quite see it.

You never rolled a <4 INT^ character in Fallout, did you?

Still hoping for the originals to be updated and released on iPad...

That... that would be amazing. Holy ****.





^I think it was <4 anyway.

[amijp]

You never rolled a <4 INT^ character in Fallout, did you?


^I think it was <4 anyway.

Haha no, you are right there!

Honestly, I've only just started playing the original Fallout games these last few weeks, after being inspired to by this very thread! Completed Fallout a copule of days ago; what a game! I really thought that people looked at this game through rose-tinted nostalga glasses up until now, but thankfully I now realise this isn't the case!

Great story line, and cool gameplay; I think a major difference between Fallout and FO3 is that the original features a fair bit of puzzle solving and the player has to do without a lot of hints of much handholding when it comes to quests, which differes from the pointers and trackers of FO3. Obviously these days games have to appeal to a wider audience and to 'part time' gamers, hence the extra help.

So I do think in the regards of general gameplay and also role playing, the originals are better imo.

Having said that, I find the combat slightly irritating. Especially in larger battles where you have to wait ages for your turn to come back around! And the damage system is very inconsistent (it seems to me,) even with a smalls guns score in exess of 100% and armed with a sniper rifle sometimes you just don't hit hard enough. But, as many have pointed out, FO3's combat is fairly shoddy also, so whilst I prefer the combat of the new games, it still stands to be improved.

Has anybody here played Valkyria Chronicles? This game uses a cool turn based battle system; every player has a time limit in which to move and do actions, rather than 'action points,' and each person can do one action a turn, be it heal, shoot, throw a grenade etc. With a little work, this modernised system would work well I feel. Anyone agree?

Oh, and I'd say keep the new games first/third person. The isometric view is just too old school!

So yeah, really enjoying the originals. Now playing through FO2, which I'm enjoying more than the first! I've just found the G.E.C.K, so I still have a ways to go

[MyNameDidntFit]

Haha no, you are right there!

You should try it some time. I practically guarantee you'll not finish (or even get very far) before leaving it alone, but it's hilarious to do once and, one day, I'm going to actually finish the game like that, I swear

[Spell_of_Destruction]

Having said that, I find the combat slightly irritating. Especially in larger battles where you have to wait ages for your turn to come back around! And the damage system is very inconsistent (it seems to me,) even with a smalls guns score in exess of 100% and armed with a sniper rifle sometimes you just don't hit hard enough. But, as many have pointed out, FO3's combat is fairly shoddy also, so whilst I prefer the combat of the new games, it still stands to be improved.

Were you using targeted shots? You really want to be inflicting critical hits (fast shot seems like a great trait on paper but it really isn't...at least not if you aren't using burst weapons, not until you get the Sniper perk anyway). Normally you get a base critical chance of your luck as a % (so pretty low) but shots to the eyes/head give you a big critical bonus. The Finesse trait gives you a 10% critical chance bonus IIRC but this reduced your base damage so makes the game tougher until you become good at targeted shots.

High RoF weapons give you a much higher critical chance too as you get a roll for each individual shot. Miniguns are great in FO1 but sadly they (and all big weapons apart from the Bozar) got shafted in FO2 (stick to small guns and energy weapons).

Bear in mind that your % skill does not directly affect the damage of a weapon. All damage is determined by the weapon itself, the type of ammo used etc. Your % skill determines your accuracy only. In FO3 it related to damage only so is capped at 100%. In FO 1 and 2 it is literally your % chance of hitting with that weapon type independent of other factors. It is therefore well worth investing above 100% due to the number of modifiers in the game (distance, light conditions, targeted shots, your enemy's armour class). So you may have a small guns skill of 100% but after modifers are taken into account you may only have a 60% chance of hitting. A good indicator that you don't need to increase your skill any more is that you are regularly given a 95% chance of hitting with targeted eye shots.

As for the combat system as a whole - I can see why it would frustrate people but you have to view it from the perspective that the games tried to remain as close to a p'n'p rpg as possible.

Just about everything that happens in Fallout 1 and 2 is determined by the game's D100 system. There was actually a Fallout p'n'p available for download on the internet years ago which was exactly the same system used in the game. You could theoretically simulate the entire game with a pen, a notepad with hexagonal markings and a couple of D10s.

So yeah, really enjoying the originals. Now playing through FO2, which I'm enjoying more than the first! I've just found the G.E.C.K, so I still have a ways to go

Great to hear you're having fun playing through the originals! Make sure you download the hi-res packs if you haven't already. Makes the old school graphics much easier on the eyes. The Restoration Project download also has some cool features - adds in some areas and quests (you can save Sulik's sister for instance) that were removed from the original game and also an add on which models armour on your NPCs (it's pretty awesome when your entire crew is strutting around in Power Armour!).

[Glen_Savet]

My wish for Fallout 4 is a top down, isometric turn based squad game. Fallout 3 was a huge letdown for me.