Inquisitors inquisitive about Marine Chapters

[Corbeau]

This is a very broad question, but what do you think is the minimum a Chapter needs to do, or how much its practices or organisation etc needs to deviate from the norm before the Inquisition gets involved? From what I understand in terms of religious practices the Ecclesiarchy has no say, but at what point would they create enough suspicion to warrant Inquisitorial interest to some degree?

Similarly, certain Chapters seem to be able to get away with more than others, what's the most they can get away with generally do you think (essentially the same question worded from another direction lol).

[lovelessmerc]

The withholding of a geneseed tithe. - Badab war.
The unwarranted assualt of another Imperial institution.- Soul Drinkers.

Those are the 2 big ones I can think of, but if the Inquistion starts poking around you better have one damn good excuse. Because you may kill said inqusitor or even his fleet, but his colleges(sp) will come, and thier colleges, and thiers.

[ForgottenLore]

Depends on the chapter. How old and prestigious it is, how many political connections it has, it's war record, and so on.

it also depends on the inquisitor. What faction he belongs to, his political contacts, personal grudges.

In short, the answer to your question is "whatever suits the story"

[Stonerhino]

The withholding of a geneseed tithe. - Badab war.
The unwarranted assualt of another Imperial institution.- Soul Drinkers.

Those are the 2 big ones I can think of, but if the Inquistion starts poking around you better have one damn good excuse. Because you may kill said inqusitor or even his fleet, but his colleges(sp) will come, and thier colleges, and thiers.

Forgottenlore, has it right.

Look at the Space Wolf lore and you will see that "What chapter" matters more then the event in question.

[TheDungen]

the iron serpents (i think it was) got excommunicated for worshipping the emperor as an animal totem.

[Corbeau]

Forgottenlore, has it right.

Look at the Space Wolf lore and you will see that "What chapter" matters more then the event in question.

Thats what I thought to be pretty much the case, I thought I'd referenced that in the OP but that serves me right for posting at stupid o'clock. The role of the Inquisitors has fluctuated somewhat over the 17 years I've been gaming, so in part I think there's some inconsistency because of that, and also inconsistency of application due to fluff purposes. The latter handily masks the former too lol.

The Steel Cobras were one of the Chapters I had in mind, seems a bit harsh lol.
I was wondering if there were any specific examples from the likes of the Black Library. I love fluff above all other aspects but I just can't get on with a lot of those books :/

[Jogi]

While there are obviously certain things that would draw the attention of the Inquisition in general, Soul Drinkers I'm looking at you, I think a lot of the time it would come down to the individual Inquisitor and their personal motives.

Everybody has their own hot topics, things that they hate or they think are wrong despite everybody elses opinions and it is easy to imagine the case would be the same with Inquisitors, there would always be one that doesn't like the way a certain chapter behaves or one of their traditions and makes it a personal mission to bring them to some kind of 'justice'.

On top of this Inquisitors are only human in the end and are open to all of humanities worst traits - Jealousy, greed, hunger for power etc. and even a perceived slight from a Space Marine could be enough to set some of them off on a personal crusade against the whole chapter.

[aim]

Forgottenlore, has it right.

Look at the Space Wolf lore and you will see that "What chapter" matters more then the event in question.

Space Wolves and Dark Angels are both examples of this. They have both been investigated by inquisitors and both have killed inquisitors. But the reason they get away with it is because you don't get more prestigous than one of the first founding. It would likely be enough to start a second civil war if you went around killing off first founding chapters and trying to claim they were disloyal, moreso if you tried to pull that stuff with the Ultras, like what, 60% of chapters have UM geneseed?

[Grey Hunter 88]

Your best source for this information will be the Ascension book for Dark Heresy. You can buy it wherever gaming books are sold, or purchase the PDF from the Fantasy Flight Games website.

What you are looking for is around page 170, in the Chapter "Serving the Inquisition", under the subtitle "Interactions".

There's a lot of great information in that book in general, though the quick version of what you are looking for is:

Two biggest reasons: Suspected genetic impurity and questionable loyalty (often because they've withheld aid).

Though realistically, the Inquisitor in question would have to be both supremely connected, and be willing to lose all of his allies within the Ordos who don't want to take his/her side against a Chapter of Space Marines.

Inquisitors are as varied as the stars. Everyone above who has said "As long as it fits the story" pretty much has it right. Some of them will sit and scheme for a century to bring down a single heretic, while others will march into town with full panoply and start decimating the population.

[A Shadow]

It's another grey area of the fluff. Technically the Inquisition has ultimate authority in deciding who and what should be investigated within the Imperium but the Chapters are technically independent organizations.

Anyone familiar with the Damned Company of Lord Caustos can tell you that they were declared Traitor by a single Inquisitor based upon pretty weak evidence.

Mostly I think it depends on how renowned a Chapter is and how well they cooperate with the Imperial institutions, against how insular they are and what geneseed effects are known to affect them (Wolf canine growth etc)

[Stonerhino]

Space Wolves and Dark Angels are both examples of this. They have both been investigated by inquisitors and both have killed inquisitors. But the reason they get away with it is because you don't get more prestigous than one of the first founding. It would likely be enough to start a second civil war if you went around killing off first founding chapters and trying to claim they were disloyal, moreso if you tried to pull that stuff with the Ultras, like what, 60% of chapters have UM geneseed?

The Space Wolves have been pushing the limits of what Space Marines can get away with a lot longer and more in your face about it then DA.

For example the Space Wolves almost went to war against the Ordo Malleus to let a radical Inquisitor escape. Then their is Logan Grimnar's own fluff.

It is not just against the enemies of the Imperium that Grimnar has waged war. He has willingly, some would say joyfully, led his forces into battle against imperial institutions whose agendas and action he deemed threatening to those within his sprawling domain.

The quote continues by saying that the reason the SWs don't get punished is because it's better to have them as allies then enemies. There is no "Oh they're first founding", even if it is taken into account.

It's easy to see that through their history the Space Wolves have been given special treatment.

Making

whatever suits the story

the perfect answer.

[stormblade]

For example the Space Wolves almost went to war against the Ordo Malleus to let a radical Inquisitor escape. Then their is Logan Grimnar's own fluff.

Not that you can 'go to war' with an ordo since it's just a bunch of individuals prancing around galaxy doing their thing. You might try hunting them down but going from planet to planet gathering evidence doesn't sound like something the SW would do.

[Spetulhu]

Similarly, certain Chapters seem to be able to get away with more than others, what's the most they can get away with generally do you think (essentially the same question worded from another direction lol).

IIRC Marneus Calgar of the Ultramarines has even gotten away with declaring Exterminatus on his own authority. That's pretty much as extreme as you can get.

[aim]

The Space Wolves have been pushing the limits of what Space Marines can get away with a lot longer and more in your face about it then DA.

For example the Space Wolves almost went to war against the Ordo Malleus to let a radical Inquisitor escape. Then their is Logan Grimnar's own fluff.

The quote continues by saying that the reason the SWs don't get punished is because it's better to have them as allies then enemies. There is no "Oh they're first founding", even if it is taken into account.

It's easy to see that through their history the Space Wolves have been given special treatment.

Making

the perfect answer.

I'm not arguing that, but the DA are hardly poster boys for squeaky clean either, IIRC they assploded a Black Templars cruiser that had a member of the =][= on board that they thought had found out about their little secret?

[Askil the Undecided]

IIRC Marneus Calgar of the Ultramarines has even gotten away with declaring Exterminatus on his own authority. That's pretty much as extreme as you can get.

As a peer of the Imperium It's also entirely within his rights to declare Exterminatus, just as long as he can justify it if required to by the High Lords or Inquisition.

[Idaan]

the iron serpents (i think it was) got excommunicated for worshipping the emperor as an animal totem.

Steel Cobras. It's interesting because I'm 99% convinced that it was just an excuse. A lot of Imperials worship the Emperor by weaving him into their pre-Imperial mythos as a sun god or thunder god - a totem for a feral world animistic society doesn't seem that far-fetched. And the Space Marines are exempted from having to worship the Emperor to begin with - a lot of chapters "worship" him in the same sense as people worship Mao or Lenin, as a pinnacle of humanity.

[TheDungen]

oh yeah steel cobras, not that while dawn of war may not be completely cannon the cannon (most cannon?) ending of dark crusade is the blood ravens purge cronus and wipe out the imperial guard garrison. and they don't seem to be excommunicated for it.

[Lord-Caerolion]

It all depends on who their friends and enemies are, and how influential each is. The Badab War wasn't started by withholding Tithes, it was caused by someone the Astral Claws had annoyed calling in a favour to the Fire Hawks, who had a grudge against the Astral Claws, and the conflict gradually grew from there, until the Astral Claws went too far in their defense of what was rightly their territory, and eventually seceded. The wider Imperium actually didn't give a damn either way at first what the Astral Claws were doing, until the petty grudge expanded to involve numerous Chapters.
Even then, the Astral Claws were judged by a conclave of Astartes, not the Inquisition. The Inquisitor rubber-stamped their decision, but Astartes going rogue is largely Astartes business. Occasionally you get the overzealous Ministorum official, or the naive Monodominant, like what happened to the Steel Cobras (and I can pretty much guarantee that said priest would have been reprimanded pretty damned heavily later, or at least that most Astartes that found out would be pretty offended by how events proceeded. Largely though, the Astartes are allowed to conduct their own affairs, and most differences are overlooked. If anything, an Inquisitor wouldn't do anything directly, but would point out the suspect Chapter to another, more compliant one, and see how things progress.

[Lord Zarkov]

The Space Wolves have been pushing the limits of what Space Marines can get away with a lot longer and more in your face about it then DA.

For example the Space Wolves almost went to war against the Ordo Malleus to let a radical Inquisitor escape. Then their is Logan Grimnar's own fluff.

The quote continues by saying that the reason the SWs don't get punished is because it's better to have them as allies then enemies. There is no "Oh they're first founding", even if it is taken into account.

It's easy to see that through their history the Space Wolves have been given special treatment.

Making

the perfect answer.

Well there was the time an overzealous Inquisitor actually tried to wipe out the Space Wolves due to a disagreement stemming from the fallout of Armageddon I, in which no one was willing to back down.
Spoilers from Emperor's Gift

The conflict was only resolved when the Inquisitor's will to continue was weakened after meeting Bjorn and the whole "OMG this guy fought at the Emperor's side while He was alive" thing made him realise the enormity of what he was doing (i.e. wiping out a First Founding Chapter); meaning that when Bjorn scolded Logan Grimnar into apologising for the conflict he was willing to accept it as an end to the conflict, even accepting Grimnar's condition of a GK-related-mindwipe exemption for the Space Wolf Chapter.

So yes the Space Wolves get off lightly because they're a First Founding - yes giving in to them is often rationalised as 'oh they're more useful as allies' etc (it wouldn't do for the Inquisition to declare openly that FF Chapters can get away with whatever they want) - but the chapter clearly gets away with things far beyond what would be tolerated in any later founded chapter, however skilled they might be.

[Cthell]

Don't forget the Relictors - initially they got away with it thanks to a sympathetic radical inquisitor, but in the end they were doomed by coming to the attention of a puritan inquisitor with connections