Guard vs. Tyranids 2000

[Austinitor]

So, I played my second game with my guard last night, and my first game with them in 6th ed (my 2nd 6th ed game, overall).

My list:
Lord Commissar (Power Fist, Meltabombs, Close Combat Weapon)
Company Command (4x Meltaguns, Bolt Pistol on Captain), Officer of the Fleet, in Chimera

2x5 Ratlings
6 Battle Psykers, in Chimera

Infantry Platoon
3x3 Mortars (blobbed with Command Squad)
Command Squad with Mortar, Grenade Launcher
2xInfantry Squad, with 1 Grenade Launcher each (run as a blob)

Veteran Squad with 2 Melta Guns, Grenade Launcher

1x2 Valkyries with Multilaser, MRP, Heavy Bolters
2x1 Valkyrie with Multilaser, MRP, Heavy Bolters

Medusa
Manticore
2xHydra

Aegis Defen[s/c]e Line
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His list:
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2xFlyrant with Scything Talons

2xTervigon (which he somehow rolled Gate for both)
Lots of Gaunts; at least two squads to start, but they kept getting birthed by the above.

4x3 Hive Guard
Doom of Malantai

2x5 Shrike Broods (not exactly sure how they were armed)
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How it went:
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No LoS blocking terrain, spare one small building on my side

Diagonal deployment

Original roll was for Heavy Guns Never Tire, but he talked me into re-rolling ("you'll never get me off the objectives", he claimed; in reflection, I'm resentful of this sort of beardiness), and the new roll was Purge the Alien.

He rolled first turn.

He setup along the front edge of the diagonal in gunline style.

I castled up around the small ruin in my DZ, placing most mortars on top of it, and made a wall around it with my Aegis Line, fitting everything inside (this was a grave error).

• On his first, his Hive Tyrant Vector Struck one unit of Ratlings (in area terrain outside of my DZ), killing 3 and causing them to retreat.
• One unit of Shrikes assaulted the other unit of Ratlings (likewise in area terrain outside of my DZ), wiping them out.
• His Hive Guard Destroyed the Medusa and a Hydra.
• The Tervigons gated next to my lines, birthed Gaunts.
• In assault, the Tervigons charged into my lines (in retrospect, I wonder if the could do that?), and broke my infantry blob, sending it off the board.

Simply put, the game seemed mostly over at this point.

On my first turn, I:

• may have killed a few Gaunts and perhaps a Hive Guard or two with the Manticore and Psyker Battle Squad (they rolled AP1)
• knocked down one Flyrant with a Hydra, causing one wound

On his next,

• one Flyrant came through my lines after Vector Striking my Manticore (to no effect).
• Hive Guard killed the second Hydra and the Chimera containing the Psyker Battle Squad. 3 Psykers died in the Explosion result.
• The other Tervigon birthed Gaunts near my Command Chimera.
• In assault, the Gaunts popped the Chimera, and had deployed in such a way so that the unit inside was destroyed by virture of my inability to place models.

On my second, it seemed most everything scattered off.

• The double unit of Valks came in, as did one singleton. They shot at a few things to little effect (e.g. killed a fair number of Gaunts) and did perhaps a wound here or there against Hive Guard or Hive Tyrants.
• The mortars shot and killed some Gaunts in his gunline, but
• the Manticore completely scattered off target, even with 3 Barrages rolled.
• The Ratlings re-grouped, but failed to hit anything.

On his next turn,

• Hive Guard scored enough sixes to blow up the Valkyrie with the Lord Commissar and Veterans. He and one veteran survived the crash.
• The Hive Tyrant got into the mortars and killed 4. They ran and were overrun.
• Shrikes descended upon the Commissar and Veteran, wiping them out.

On my next, the Valks shot at some things to little effect.
The two Ratlings missed again.

Not a fun game; very one-sided.

(Rather brutal) reflections on my list and play:

• I never fired the heavy bolters on the Valks (for 40 wasted points)
• I forgot about the effect of the Officer of the Fleet, but his Doom came in so late that it was a moot point.
• Setting up my infantry between vehicles and an Aegis Line might look cool, but is a terrible tactic.
• Running an Aegis Line against Tyranids really seemed to do more harm than good.
• Running a blob squad without a Comissar was quite daft.
• Riding things in Valkyries is probably not the way to do it, given crashing flyers. Taking advantaged of the open board to somewhat safely do and immediate drop-chuting melta gun suicide run was probably in order.
• Fielding an infantry platoon but forgetting to use orders is a big mistake.
• Setting a trasport with one side blocked by a ruin is a big mistake.
• Not moving a Chimera is a big mistake.

[lunawolves]

It does seem very one sided, slightly unfair!
I think you've learnt your lesson - don't let anyone talk you out of the mission! Nids would have struggled with that mission!
You got it spot on in the end - melta gun suicide run!!! Definately!

[Magicafiend]

Austinator I would recommend running the astropath over the officer of the fleet. If you have 3 flyers it will really help get them in turn two and get the to where they need to be(with the reroll for outflanking). The officer of the fleet is kinda situational(some armies won't even have reserves, you always will). And finally, only infantry squads can blob up, nothing else can, no heavy weapons, no platoon command squads, infantry squads only(with any attached commissars of course). Running empty valks is kinda a waste, they excel as transports, not gunships. I would either take more vets or drop the valks.

[weyco]

The Tervigon's spawn termagant abillity is used in the movement phase, before the tervigon moves..

Gate of infinity is a blessing and must be used at the start of the psykers movement phase. It is a deep strike move, so no charge after using it..

I dont think Tervigon is allowed to spawn after using the gate, because it has moved by using the gate..

[Frankly]

Theses a huge debate about gate.o.F and movment. Until its FAQ'ed its 50/50.

[hangnail]

Austinator, all sorts of problems in this batrep, so I think you need to go back through your rules - repeatedly.
Check the Combined squad rules - you can only blob infantry squads, not command or HWS.
I don't think the Tyranid army even had heavy support - changing the mission was dodgy...
How were his Hive Guard hitting your vehicles in turn one? Were they on the front line? You have the range to sit back, and with diagonal deployment, there is still some decent backfield to hide in.
With your Ratlings, if you want to infiltrate them forward, go forward and *wide* (as again, they have range, and the detour to go kill them buys you time.)
Units that deepstrike can't assault, and I am of the 'spawn first then gate' camp. Were you over-watching and enforcing penalties for assaulting through the Defense Line?

[Austinitor]

@hangnail: do note that this was my 2nd game with Guard.

I hadn't noticed that combined squads was only an infantry squad special rule, so that is helpful. Given I had yet to deal with combined barrage (my Eldar army doesn't include any models with that rule), the implications of this misapplication were enough to show me I never wanted to to it again, legal or not.

His Hiveguard were deployed inside of the their 30" strike range (6" move + 24" Assault guns), and I was at the maximum distance away from his deployment line. Maybe I'm calling it wrong by "diagonal"; it was the style of deployment where no man's land crosses the top right and bottom left corners of the board, 24" apart.

There weren't any deepstriking assaults... I think I may have misremembered what happened with the Gaunts. Their shooting, combined with the Tervigon, may have actually broken the 20 man blob... or perhaps the assault was a follow-up in turn 2. Memory fades, so apologies for the error.

As to the penalties for the defense line, what we could find simply specified the ability for models within 2" to fight through the line (essentially making it a death trap for my Blob, as deployed in front of my tank). Likewise, the cover-ignoring powers of Hive Guard seem nothing to trifle with.

[hangnail]

Austinator, sorry if I came across a bit harsh!
I get the diagonal deployment... there will be some sections where you can only get so far away from the front of your deployment, but assuming a 6' wide table, you could be up to 3 feet away from his front line in other places. I would play on that! Now that we don't have to worry about Outflanking assaults, you can hide in corners to your heart's content. Now the Medusa only has a 3' range, so needs some careful balancing, but a Manticore in your very back corner can still hit everything.
Now I think you have taught me something about Aegis Lines - I assumed they would give you cover from assaults, and I think the enemy should have to attempt actual base contact/ cross the line/ roll for difficult terrain, but it looks like they can just roll up to the front face of the line... Will have to query this.
Thanks for the batrep - gives me some things to think about

[jifel]

Also, a note on assaulting turn one with Shrikes, did he get the 12" to charge? Unless you advanced he d have to be incredibly lucky, and youd both have to be right up on the line.

[hangnail]

So my thoughts on Aegis Line: sit back off it 1/4". Then both models are not in base contact and he has to cross the line (entirely). This means that the Line does not extend his charge by 1/2" but it means he needs to roll a couple of inches higher... And attack at I1. After you overwatch. Sounds good to me.

[Austinitor]

@hangnail: wouldn't I need to be greater than 2" back from the Defense Line to keep him from fighting through it?

[hangnail]

Nope, I had to check that a few times when I was looking it up - look at the rule: if BOTH models are in base contact with the Line and within 2" of each other...