Specific army tactics to kill or hold off the K'daai Destroyer

[Nymie_the_Pooh]

In a 3000 point game I have seen two skyfire cannons take out a destroyer and a half before that half of one could reach combat. The second probably would have fallen as well, but one of the cannons suffered a misfire in the second turn.

Between the poison spell, the poison banner, spider riders, and multiple cheap heroes spread about along with direct magic my Orcs and Goblins don't have to be altered as the few games I have seen them in the Destroyer pretty much always operates alone due to nothing else being able to keep up. I keep waffling on how I would deal with it with my chaos warriors. Direct magic is my best option there with the knights as backup, but there are better targets for the knights and I don't care for the idea of trying to take the Destroyer on with the knights. I definitely do not want to engage it with more than one unit of any type at a time no matter which of my two armies I am playing with. More units means more stuff it can take out which increases its combat resolution. Chaos Dwarfs are one example of a match up to where wolves are pretty much useless for screening so maybe I would put them on the flank with the Destroyer to keep it busy. Trying to strand the Destroyer out on a flank is about as easy to do as stranding cavalry on one side of the board, but if I can keep it busy eating a unit of warhounds a turn then it is basically the same effect.

The big thing I've seen from the few games I've watched and playing as Greenskins is that while the Destroyer can't be ignored you need to use as little as possible to actually engage it in melee. If you can deal with it without ever getting into melee then that is for the best, but if half your army engages the Destroyer then you have probably lost the game. It is excellent for distracting large chunks of an army from getting to where they are needed then leaving them out in the open and disarrayed for getting pummeled by war machines. It's sort of works like an ambushing unit in this way in that you can rarely ignore such a unit in your rear (or a fast unit in the flank like the Destroyer), but if you turn half your army to it then that unit has done its job even if it dies horribly.

[mostlyharmless]

That is a huge amount of points to deal with a single 300pt unit though, still and fun idea.

Custom hero
Unit of Knights
2 Wizards

All to deal with one guy

True, but the Karl Franz cav hammer o' doom can also be used to smash through other things, not just the K'Daii. The other suggestion, namely the dark elf master, is only really useful at tarpitting the K'Daii, or dealing with light cav and skirmishers, not much else.

[oldWitheredCorpse]

Between the poison spell, the poison banner, spider riders, and multiple cheap heroes spread about along with direct magic my Orcs and Goblins don't have to be altered as the few games I have seen them in the Destroyer pretty much always operates alone due to nothing else being able to keep up.

I don't get this: goblins have shortbows, so you can only protect a smaller part of the battlefield with them. And CD outgun O&G, so there shouldn't be any reason to run the Destroyer head first into something they can't handle.

[Da Crusha]

I don't get this: goblins have shortbows, so you can only protect a smaller part of the battlefield with them. And CD outgun O&G, so there shouldn't be any reason to run the Destroyer head first into something they can't handle.

well, as some one that lost a destroyer to a bunch of poison tipped goblin arrows, Id like to say we were out deployed with fewer drops and then bated. destroyers gotta get to combat as soon as possible or risk failing toughness tests and dying before doing much.

[Nymie_the_Pooh]

The few times I have seen the Destroyer used it operates so far away from the rest of the army that goblin archers can shoot at it from outside of range of small arms fire. Yes, the war machines can reach the goblins usually, but it's a gamble for the Chaos Dwarf player as even with poisoned attacks the Destroyer will wreck those goblin archers in close combat and there is still the rest of the army coming for their blocks and/or war machines to shoot at. It's almost like having gunline Dwarfs allied with a contingent of Inner Circle Knights the way the Destroyer works with the rest of the army. The Destroyer could be held back and reinforced with blocks of Chaos Dwarfs, but I haven't seen it used in that role yet. I think it could easily be used in that manner if it weren't for the fact that it seems that friendly units can be affected by Blazing Body. The Chaos Dwarves still get a 5+ save against it, but that can result in a couple of casualties still right there if the Chaos Dwarfs are butted up right next to it. The few games I've seen or played against it the only support for it was the war machines and the occasional spell. Otherwise it's been left out on its own. I'd have to revise my tactics if it were to be held back, but then again that seems to be the opposite of how he is currently played.

[Gradek]

My tactics are different. I simply won't play against the obvious FW wet dream that is the destroyer (and neither will many of my friends). Are tactic is that if enough people stand up and say no to that abomination, that the CD players will have to stop bringing that joke if they want to get a game in. Thus we defeat it by removing it from the field of battle preemptively.

[Da Crusha]

My tactics are different. I simply won't play against the obvious FW wet dream that is the destroyer (and neither will many of my friends). Are tactic is that if enough people stand up and say no to that abomination, that the CD players will have to stop bringing that joke if they want to get a game in. Thus we defeat it by removing it from the field of battle preemptively.

ok... I take it you don't go to many tournaments.

[Doommasters]

My tactics are different. I simply won't play against the obvious FW wet dream that is the destroyer (and neither will many of my friends). Are tactic is that if enough people stand up and say no to that abomination, that the CD players will have to stop bringing that joke if they want to get a game in. Thus we defeat it by removing it from the field of battle preemptively.

I agree it is very very very good for its points but I actually like playing the Chaos Dwarfs so don't mind it. No point in being a bad sport about it it isn't like the CD's are dominating tournaments or anything, just treat it like a Blood Thirster (just not quite as good).

[Yowzo]

This.

Unfortunately these aren't typically taken in standard lists. Then again you don't normally see chaos dwarfs either.

Well, I do.

I know there's going to be flaming attacks coming against my trolls, so having a 2+ fire ward fast character who can tie up those attacks while my trolls hack some other unit is extremely useful.

[GrandmasterWang]

Karl franz doesnt need the knights. With ghal maraz he can solo the beastie.

Dwarfs ~ runed (not flaming runes) cannons, bolt throwers. Grudge throwers have better targets. Characters with rune of might. I killed it in 1 round with my lord/ hammerers the first time I took it on.

Tomb kings ~ collossus with great weapon can do some damage. Necrosphinx isnt a bad match up. Poisoned arrows. Warsphinx thundercrush. Halberd tomb guard as a last resort. Bowshabti have a change to hurt it. Especially with smiting. Casket of souls can wreck it. Dragonbane gem char with other tricksters shard

To Gradek, do you also refuse to play dark elf pendant stooges? Death fisting ogres? Masque daemons? Genuine question.

I rarely use the destroyer in my cd army due to its opness and it causing a lot of the game to centre around it. I prefer to use the "uncompetitive" Siege Giant but have had cheese called even on that after a particularly dominant performance.

[Hragnar Goreskull]

Soulgrinder hehe

[mostlyharmless]

I'll have to double check the points cost of the items, but here's a fun one that is at least slightly characterful:
Chaos Lord
Mark of Khorne
Shield
That nurgle glaive thing that I can never remember
Dragon Helm
Flying Carpet

All you need to do is one unsaved wound, and that critter is now strength 2 and toughness 2 for the remainder of the game. I'd like to see him make those toughness tests now.

The build is also useful for dealing with other large gribblies and some characters that have flaming attacks.

[Gradek]

To Gradek, do you also refuse to play dark elf pendant stooges? Death fisting ogres? Masque daemons? Genuine question.

No, I don't. The destroyer is on a whole other plane of brokeness. None of those things you mentioned can destroy an entire army by itself and none of those are things where you have to dedicate almost all resources to destroy in order to win. The reason I won't play the destroyer is because it turns the game into my army vs his broken 325 point monster and that just isn't fun. WF simply dropped the ball on this thing and it isn't fun to play against (and isn't even really a challenge, it is more pure luck to beat it).

[Rudra34]

No, I don't. The destroyer is on a whole other plane of brokeness. None of those things you mentioned can destroy an entire army by itself and none of those are things where you have to dedicate almost all resources to destroy in order to win. The reason I won't play the destroyer is because it turns the game into my army vs his broken 325 point monster and that just isn't fun. WF simply dropped the ball on this thing and it isn't fun to play against (and isn't even really a challenge, it is more pure luck to beat it).

I would much rather fight one of these than an unkillable DE lord, or many other cheesy combos in the WH world.

Seeing as we have a thread going here of ways that the beast can easily be either brought down or held up, I think you are being a little dramatic. All kinda of cheese have their counters, and sometimes you just have to deal with it.

On the other hand, refusing to play with somebody because they bring a monster seems like a complete jerk move. We all get rough match-ups sometimes, it's just something that we have to deal with.

[Gradek]

I would much rather fight one of these than an unkillable DE lord, or many other cheesy combos in the WH world.

Seeing as we have a thread going here of ways that the beast can easily be either brought down or held up, I think you are being a little dramatic. All kinda of cheese have their counters, and sometimes you just have to deal with it.

On the other hand, refusing to play with somebody because they bring a monster seems like a complete jerk move. We all get rough match-ups sometimes, it's just something that we have to deal with.

Sorry, but no. Beating the destroyer comes down to either really good luck, or being able to get a fire resistant character into combat with it (assuming you have one and not an easy task with the destroyers 9MV and other CD artillery). Simply put, the destroyer completely takes the fun out of the game for me, so I won't waste my time playing against it.

[Rudra34]

Well now your just being a defeatist! Have some faith in yourself, sir or madam!

This thread has offered options: Cannons, poison, locking it up with ethereal units, locking it up with fire-resistant characters, lowering toughness with shadow magic, charge-baiting, throwing chaff at it, magic attacks (enchanted blades on a high S unit will still be awesome against the thing).

There is way more to it than, "luck." You may hate that you have to deal with it before it comes in a beat-sticks your units, but this is the same with HPAs, Hydras, Steamtanks, and a handful of other beasties in the game which are all much cheaper than the destroyer.

[mostlyharmless]

I would much rather fight one of these than an unkillable DE lord, or many other cheesy combos in the WH world.

Seeing as we have a thread going here of ways that the beast can easily be either brought down or held up, I think you are being a little dramatic. All kinda of cheese have their counters, and sometimes you just have to deal with it.

On the other hand, refusing to play with somebody because they bring a monster seems like a complete jerk move. We all get rough match-ups sometimes, it's just something that we have to deal with.

That Dark Elf lord isn't unkillable. You're clearly not using the right methods. He crumples to massed shooting, ie chaos dwarf blunderbusses. The key is to hit him with alot of low strength attacks, better if they ignore armour, like every single damage spell from Lore of Metal, which also don't have a strength value, or every damage spell from Lore of Death.

[Rudra34]

Yes I am aware that there are ways to deal with the DE lord, or any cheese for that matter. Calling it the 'unkillable' DE lord is just me using a term which people recognize as a specific set-up.

[mostlyharmless]

Here's the difference: it takes a single wizard to kill the dark elf. It take an entire army to kill the K'Daai.

[Rudra34]

Here's the difference: it takes a single wizard to kill the dark elf. It take an entire army to kill the K'Daai.

A single wizard assuming you have access to and took the specific lore that you are mentioning with no prior knowledge of what armies or lists you would be playing against. I used the lord as ONE example, let it go