Epic: No.

[Dangersaurus]

Jervis at Games Workshop Open Day:

http://fromthefang.blogspot.com/2012...-open-day.html

He talked about how the specialist games figure into the mix. Basically they focus their attention on the primary games (WFB, 40K, LOTR) and then when there's some "spare capacity" they might work on a standalone release. This was the case with Space Hulk for example. Jamie asked if Epic would ever come back to which the answer was a pretty firm "no".

I guess that's it then. No new epic stuff from GW for, well, ever.

[Spectrar Ghost]

No surprise there. Fortunately (like most of the SGs to be honest) Epic is chugging along just fine without the help of GW.

[Novrain]

Some stuff will be missed, but I dont think I have bought epic from GW in the last 3 years.

[Irisado]

No surprises there. It's very disappointing, but let's be honest, we were deluding ourselves if we ever thought that GW would ever start properly supporting Epic again.

[blackcherry]

Well at least its official now. Also its something I completely understand from GWs point of view, even if it is frustrating. Back when he was running fanatic it seemed like it was just him and a few buddies running things on their off days. I'm sure as he gets older he wants to have a bit more free time.

[draccan]

Just saw this. That is a big shame. On the other hand if there was a project under way I doubt he would reveal it just like that. It would probably be under wraps until the last moment.

That said I think GW is making a huge mistake in not supporting a larger ecosystem. Back when epic 2nd ed. was released there was a plethora of games that really kept you going back to independent retailer stores and get some of the new stuff they did. Thus I played Warhammer, 40k, Epic, Man o'War, Space Crusade, Space Hulk, Warmaster and tons of other games over the years to larger and lesser degrees. I think GW underestimate what these games did for each other in terms of keeping you within the GW brand.

Oh and by the way, EPIC 2nd ed. was an amazing and unforgettable gaming experience!

[susu.exp]

Not to forget that these games did push forward the background, by alllowing or sometimes even neccessitating innovation. Quite a bit of the current Ork fluff comes from Gorkamorka, Inquisitor allowed Gav to really go into the various views within the organization. And the biggest one was when due to the limited ability of GW to put out sprues Jervis had to come up with a justification of pitching Beetebacks against one another: The birth of the Horus Heresy.

[draccan]

Not to forget that these games did push forward the background, by alllowing or sometimes even neccessitating innovation. Quite a bit of the current Ork fluff comes from Gorkamorka, Inquisitor allowed Gav to really go into the various views within the organization. And the biggest one was when due to the limited ability of GW to put out sprues Jervis had to come up with a justification of pitching Beetebacks against one another: The birth of the Horus Heresy.

totally agree with every word!

[carlisimo]

I was hoping that the success of Dystopian Wars and other small-scale game systems would bring Epic back, if only out of fear for the new competition. Oh well. We had our chances to show GW we cared in 1997 and 2002 or so.

[Dangersaurus]

Susu.exp makes a point that there's no fringe areas for developing new ideas for the background, but I disagree. That's the province of Black Library, Forge World, and the Warhammer World events team these days.

Ah well. I'll still chug away painting my teeny tiny little soldiers even if I never get to play them very much. If anything, a detachment or two painted to match their 40k force makes a great gift to friends.

[Starchild]

The GW development team has lied in the past. For example, one year they were asked if Space Hulk was being worked on. The answer? "No."

Space Hulk was released the following year.

[oink]

This is a downright lie - indeed, I believe that there is somethign of a requirement for them to support their games in order to be able to protect their intellectual property rights. iirc this was actually one of the reasons why they worked on Space Hulk... So, at the very least you should be able to expect a drip feed game for Epic some time in the grim darkness of the far future (where there is only war... of course).

[Tastyfish]

My brother came up with a good idea for Epic and the other specialist games - include an epic miniature on the 40K sprues, for use primarily as campaign army markers but also for expanding the army into different scales like Epic and AI.
You wouldn't need to directly match the units up, tactical marines might well have 5 tactical marines on them, but the landraider sprue might parts for a thunderhawk on it as you'd still sell the majority of the units directly and the numbers aren't going to match up.

However it'd be a cool thing to add just for the hell of it and to emphasis the all encompassing nature of the 40K universe and narrative campaigns. Plus if you're looking for something a bit different (either a broader scale tactical game like epic, space battles with BFG or a quick and fast 20 minute pick up game like Aeronautica) you've already got half the bits. Think it'd go a long way to keeping veterans in the GW fold and bringing SG to a wider audience at a fairly low price and no extra factory time.

[yabbadabba]

This is a downright lie - indeed, I believe that there is something of a requirement for them to support their games in order to be able to protect their intellectual property rights. iirc this was actually one of the reasons why they worked on Space Hulk... So, at the very least you should be able to expect a drip feed game for Epic some time in the grim darkness of the far future (where there is only war... of course).

No you wouldn't. as long as GW keep sales of Epic available, the rules available e.t.c, they wouldn't have to make anything new as they can show that they are still supporting and selling the product. In addition, by including some Epic models in AI, FW have created a double strand of support which also protects that IP. Support does not mean new releases.

It's ironic that before I left GW I broached the idea that GW could do one off release sessions for SGs. So take Epic. You would advertise the whole range for sale, with a minimum sale value per order, with a single time period for taking sales and then make the products after you have the orders. Customers might wait a few months for their goods, but hey let's face facts there was precious little around to buy in the first place.

So GW advertise the Great Epic Push, you put in your order...say minimum £100, they then cast the models and ship out. Free rule set for everyone. Anything left over is sold to staff at cost. At the end of the day GW make a crap load of cash, some of the major lines miss out for a small period of time, staff mop up any left overs so your warehouse remains clutter free, and everyone is happy.

In many respects, almost a Kickstarter. My idea was to start with either BFG or BB as a first run.

[draccan]

In the current climate of GW prices I really hope they wait on a relaunch until they get back to reality... I would hate a release akin to the Hobbit...

[yabbadabba]

Part of the problem with the prices is that they have to cover production costs etc all within a specific period; the Rhino chassis took years to pay off so the last I heard the limit was set to 5 years. Within that time all costs and profit assigned to that product has to be made. It might be even less time now.

With Epic, if they don't do anything new, they could theoretically keep the prices the same; no design time is needed, no production time, just casting time, material costs and staffing. In addition if they went for a single hit aka Dread Fleet and Space Hulk, with good marketing, they will know their costs before they have even made an item, and will not be gambling ona return time of years, more like weeks.

[susu.exp]

This is a downright lie - indeed, I believe that there is somethign of a requirement for them to support their games in order to be able to protect their intellectual property rights. iirc this was actually one of the reasons why they worked on Space Hulk... So, at the very least you should be able to expect a drip feed game for Epic some time in the grim darkness of the far future (where there is only war... of course).

Actually, nope. There is a requirement to use a trademark to retain it - but if it weren´t for SH, licensing out SHA to FFG would have done the trick as well. By selling products under their Epic range, GW maintain that mark - there´s no requirement to do anything more (to just maintain the mark they could even drop to one product using it).

That being said, the only way to make money from a mark is to license it out or to use it. GW have dropped marks in the past - simply because they dropped products. Keeping the Epic mark only matters if they want to use it. As it is, they hold it and can maintain it at rather low cost and it gives them an option to use it if they ever want to.

@Tastyfish: That´d pretty much boil down to: Epic now available at bits sites... Would it work? Questionable. It´s also a matter of whether you´d go the same way for BFG for instance.

@yabbadabba: Hmm, I think making a starter available as a splash might work even better. But the question with SGs doesn´t seem to be so much "will this make money?", but rather "will this make more money than using the same resources for something in the core ranges?". And that seems to work against SGs, even though with the production set up the way it is they could do releases at a lower cost than they used to. Necromunda with a plastic terrain set in the box would sell, simply for the terrain (the COD boxes were rather successful, which is why they followed up with more terrain boxes) and if people went and bough some of the metals, so much for the better. To give EPIC a full plastic range the type of investment is roughly equivalent to a single 40k army. A box of the size of the Ork boys would cover basic infantry and tanks for any given army, possibly with a SH thrown in or a couple of fliers. And then you´d have a box each for Ork, Imperial and Eldar Titans (possibly 2 for the imperium). The question then is: Could Epic sell as much as a 40k army? And if the answer is no, then we won´t see Epic.

[yabbadabba]

True, and that has been the key business driving argument against SGs, but I doubt SH would make a similar return as a splash release. I think the margins on that were finer.

I am fairly sure GW still have the majority of the molds for making the majority of the lines. Shouldn't be too difficult to knock up, it's just getting the delivery right.

[malika]

I don't feel that bad about it. If we look at the last couple of codexes and armybooks from WFB and 40k, we see that GW has gone into the whole big clunky toys route when it comes to their designs. Imagine Epic like that...

Lets hope that Forgeworld will take interest in Epic material and start releasing some Horus Heresy related stuff!

[shelfunit.]

Lets hope that Forgeworld will take interest in Epic material and start releasing some Horus Heresy related stuff!

When I last bought Epic stuff from FW (just before the relatively low price increase) the guy on the phone said they do take feedback into consideration for what they release, so when you do order - ask about new Epic models