Is a Fortification a Model?

[Azazel]

Victory Conditions: If at the end of any game turn one player has no models on the table, he loses.

Fortifications: An Unocupied Fortification cannot be attacked.

So could you deploy a Fortification, have your whole army in reserve (like an all Flyer Necron army or all Valk IG) and not lose at the end of turn 1 because you still have your untouchable Fortification on the table?

I would say no, but I can't find anything that spells it out loud and clear in the rulebook (probably comes under 'rules lawyering, bad sportsmanship and general ******tery').

[Eldoriath]

Hm, good question. Don't have my rulebook with me atm, but if the rules for loosing says model and not unit I guess you could survive using an gunemplacement of any sort. Or, the term model is only referring to models you control, which a fortification is not even though it is you who buy it.

[Kharnvor]

Excluding units that must start in reserve, you cannot hold more than half of your units in reserve, so its a moot point as you will always have at least one model on the table. I'm not familiar with any armies comprised entirely of units that must be held in reserve, so if there is one forgive me and carry on.

I would say however that a fortification is terrain, as it is in the Battlefield Terrain section and is comprise of terrain pieces specifically, and not models.

[bonfire01]

I would say no since the other side can steal your building by running into it if they felt the urge. If you stuck an empty building on the table someone could even infiltrate into it on turn one as per the rules on pg 38 of the rulebook which says you can infiltrate into an unnocupied building as long as it is at least 12 inches from the enemy.

[Damocles8]

Excluding units that must start in reserve, you cannot hold more than half of your units in reserve, so its a moot point as you will always have at least one model on the table. I'm not familiar with any armies comprised entirely of units that must be held in reserve, so if there is one forgive me and carry on.

I would say however that a fortification is terrain, as it is in the Battlefield Terrain section and is comprise of terrain pieces specifically, and not models.

Space Marine Drop Pod armies can, but half of them arrive first turn....

[Kharnvor]

Space Marine Drop Pod armies can, but half of them arrive first turn....

Ah, forgot about them. Still, unless they then get annihilated wholesale, you'll still have at least one model left at the end of the turn, and thus its still not an issue. If they're all dead by the end of the turn, do you really want to continue anyway?

[Coredump]

Nids can all reserve, and then lose turn one.

Its one of the benefits of playing bugs... ;-)

[Azeroth133]

Short answer is no a Fortification is a peice of terrian with special rules.

[Mandragola]

I'm pretty sure marines don't have to use their drop pod sand therefore do count towards the 50% reserve thing. The same applies to units with flyers as dedicated transports.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

No, models in transports that have to remain in reserve do not count towards the number of units you can have in reserve.

[kaboodle]

Short answer is no a Fortification is a peice of terrian with special rules.

I'd agree with this to be the case. The auto-loss is based upon you not having a model on the table at the end of the turn. The Fortification is not 'your model', it is a terrain piece which is free to be embarked upon by either players forced during the game.

[Dwane Diblie]

I can't seem to find it right now, but I am sure I read somewhere that Building Fortifications are yours only on the first turn and only if you have models in them. Nothing for any of the other fortifications though.

Oh and Necrons are another army that can force its entire army in to reserves with Night Scythes for everything. Loose turn one.

[Bollogs]

deathwing can start off table

[Damocles8]

deathwing can start off table

Can or must?

[Mandragola]

No, models in transports that have to remain in reserve do not count towards the number of units you can have in reserve.

That is not the rule. A drop pod has to come from reserve but the squad does not have to ride in it, so it does count.

Note that it says on page 124 under preparing reserved that a unit and it's dedicated transport count as a single unit for the purpose of calculating how many guys can go in reserve. That isn't the same as saying that they do not count if one of them doesn't count. A squad in a pod counts as one unit in reserve, just as a squad in a rhino does.

[Dwane Diblie]

That was not what he was saying. Lets put it another way. Any Transport that must start in reserves, and any models on that transport, do not count towards the number of units you can have in reserves. You want to stick a IG Vet squad in a Valk then nether count towards your limit. It does not just apply to dedicated transports.

[Mandragola]

I was actually wrong about the drop pods. Units with dedicated transports that must deep strike, do not count towards your reserve limit. See page 36. The difference there is that half your drop pods appear on turn one, so you don't auto lose.

That isn't the case for flyers. In that example, the valk must go in reserve but the vets are choosing to go in reserve and ride in it. They therefore count towards the reserve limit.

At least, that's my interpretation. I don't think it's all that clear, and it is not as clear as I initially thought. I would like to see a FAQ to clear it up.