Does a unit with a flier as a dedicated transport have to start in reserve?

[IJW]

No, because half the Drop Pods will land in the first turn.

[boogle]

Elysian Armies can have everything loaded up in Flyer transports (dedicated or otherwise), so how would that work?

[Azeroth133]

Elysian Armies can have everything loaded up in Flyer transports (dedicated or otherwise), so how would that work?

House rules.

[boogle]

Or a FW FAQ

[ObiWan]

Where is this 'auto-lose' rule in the BRB?

[ObiWan]

I just found it never mind

[alextroy]

To clean up this messy thread:

You may place no more then half your units into Reserves. When determining how many units you have, a unit and it's dedicated transport count as one unit for this purpose. Any unit that must be placed in reserves is not counted for this purpose, which by extension means if the dedicated transport must be placed in reserves, neither it nor the unit count. All flyers must be placed in reserve.

Don't get cute and place your entire army in Reserves if you can't bring in units form Reserves on Turn 1 (Drop Pod Assault, Deathwing Assault), because if you don't have models on the table at the end of a game turn, you lose the game.

[Mandragola]

You may place no more then half your units into Reserves. When determining how many units you have, a unit and it's dedicated transport count as one unit for this purpose. Any unit that must be placed in reserves is not counted for this purpose, which by extension means if the dedicated transport must be placed in reserves, neither it nor the unit count. All flyers must be placed in reserve.

Afraid not. Units in transports that must deep strike don't count towards the reserve count, according to the deep strike rules on page 36. There is no such rule for flyers and no rule saying that units inside dedicated transports that must be in reserve don't count. Only the transports themselves don't count. Units with flying dedicated transports don't have to deploy in them. They are choosing to go into reserve by riding in their plane, so they do count towards reserves.

[lantzkev]

mandragola, you didn't read the book apparently. I'll quote for you

Units that must start the game in reserve are ignored for the purposes... a unit and its dedicated transport are counted as a single unit for these purposes...

They are clearly linked together and clearly do not count towards the 50%.

Independent characters however are always a single unit regardless of if joined or not, so unless in a dedicated trans that must start off board... count towards that 50%

Page 124.

[bobafett012]

Afraid not. Units in transports that must deep strike don't count towards the reserve count, according to the deep strike rules on page 36. There is no such rule for flyers and no rule saying that units inside dedicated transports that must be in reserve don't count. Only the transports themselves don't count. Units with flying dedicated transports don't have todeploy in them. They are choosing to go into reserve by riding in their plane, so they do count towards reserves.

This whole issue gets a little confusing wit but you just have to reread the deep strike AND reserves rules very closely a few times. It doesn't help matters when units like the storm raven is a flyer, can deep strike, is also a transport, and HAS to be put into reserves.

[Mandragola]

I have read the book. You can't selectively edit out the full stop and capital letter to make that look like one sentence when it isn't. The sentence about a unit and its transport counting as a single unit is just telling you to count a unit and its transport as one unit, in reserve or on the board, when working out the total number of units that you have. So a rhino and tactical squad on the board is one unit.

On the other hand with drop pods, anyone deployed in them doesn't count towards your reserve limit. Even independent characters, regardless of whether they are dedicated or not (though obviously, drop pods always are).

[lantzkev]

I left out the rest of the sentence because it made no difference to the context of the quote, but if you'd like the full quote I'll oblige you.

under preparing reserves in the paragraph that starts "when deploying their armies, players can choose not to deploy up to half..."

units that must start the game in reserve are ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units may do so. A unit and its dedicated transport are counted as a single unit for these purposes

For the purposes of what? it's pretty clear for "if they must start in reserves and thus be ingnored for the 50% requirement"

I didn't selectively edit out the full stop and capital letter. If a unit is in a dedicated transport that must start in reserves, they are ignored for the 50% rule. it matters not if they must be embarked or not, they are counted as one unit.

The rule is clearly stating that fliers (which must stay in reserves) and units that use them as a dedicated transport count as one unit. And if they count as one unit, both the transport and the unit embarked on it do not count towards the 50%

[Nurgling Chieftain]

Hmm. I'm leaning towards lantzkev's position on this one. It's a valid reading of the selection in context (although I would argue that "these purposes" includes everything in the same paragraph, which isn't precisely what lantzkev wrote), and makes the ruleset more consistent between deep-strikers and other reserves.

[alextroy]

The Deep Strike rules about some units having to arrive by Deep Strike are in complete harmony with the Reserves rule. The only wrinkle is that all units embarked in a unit that must deep strike do not count toward the number of unit you must deploy, which would included embarked ICs. This rule does not apply to other transports placed in reserves.

An IC in another units Drop Pod does not count when determining how many units must be placed in reserves since the Drop Pod must arrive by Deep Strike.

An IC deployed in an Night Scythe does count when determining how many units must be placed in reserves, since while the Night Scythe must be placed in reserves, it does not have to arrive by Deep Strike.

[Azeroth133]

I highly doubt GW would have even considered removeing the option of an all drop pod army.

[alextroy]

They didn't remove the all drop pod army. Just just need to make sure every unit takes a drop pod, there isn't more then 1 IC, and there is space for him in one of the drop pods.

They did make sure you couldn't play an all flyer army, however.

[Infidel]

They did make sure you couldn't play an all flyer army, however.

Close enough - Necrons can deploy just their HQ (probably Imhotekh) behind some Aegist defense line (most probably with a Comm Relay) with maybe a squad of phlebs to absorb hits and then happily reserve everything else, which is between 7-8 fliers.

[nlive]

Of choose there are no issues with an all drop pod army, it just acts the same a demonic assault. Remember daemons -have- to start turn 1 with nothing on the board.