# Thread: Vehicle Weaponskill in 6th ed

1. ## Vehicle Weaponskill in 6th ed

So, hitting vehicles in combat. I have to say, I didn't particularly like the 5th ed way of doing it - straight To Hit values were a very hamfisted way of dealing with the problem, as it didn't take into account the skill of the attacker at all. Vehicles that went at Cruising Speed were also really, really hard to hit!

However, I don't like 6th ed's Ws0 Or Ws1 system either. For a start, a raider that has gone 30" in a turn should not be hit on a 3+ by a grot - nor should it be as easy to hit as a monolith that moved 0.5". So, new system:

Hitting Vehicles in combat:

If a Vehicle is immobilised or didn't move at all last turn, it has Ws0 (and is therefore hit automatically in close combat).

If a Vehicle moved in the previous turn, it is considered to have a Ws value equal to the total distance it moved, divided by 3, rounding down. For example, a rhino that moved 10" last turn would have a Ws value of 4.
This distance must be the distance it moved from the starting position to its end position in any one phase, measured from the central point. Moving around in circles or back and forth does not add to its Ws. For example, a rhino drives 12" in a phase, but actually only goes 10" from its starting position to its end position (as it drives around a wreck), thus it only has a Ws of 3. It that rhino then flatouts in the shooting phase this may increase its Ws further.
Note that starting and end position and total distance is calculated separately for each phase - in the above example, if the rhino went 6" sideways, its total distance from the original start point may not be very far, but its total Ws would be 5 (10/3 + 6/3). If the same rhino had gone only 5" effective distance in the shooting phase, it would only have a Ws of 4 = 3 from the movement phase and 1 from the shooting phase.

No Vehicle may have greater than Ws10 for any reason. If a Vehicle goes further than 30" in any one turn (calculated as above), then all successful hits against it in close combat must be rerolled. This normally only applies to Flyers, as going at these speeds is otherwise impossible for conventional vehicles, but some exotic wargear does allow for very fast movement.

Basically, I think this would much more accurately represent how speed would make the vehicles harder to hit. You have to go at a fair clip to avoid having trained soldiers (i.e. marines) hit you easily, but you have to go like a bat out of hell to make it very difficult for them to hit you. The only difficulty is that there would be a fair amount of book keeping on how fast everything has moved.

Thoughts?

2. ## Re: Vehicle Weaponskill in 6th ed

On a related but not identical topic: This would also play into the Close Combat versus Flyers rules, as given below - a flyer that's only going as fast as a Rhino at max speed isn't actually that fast. I.e.

Assaulting a Flyer in Zooming mode:

Only units entirely made up of models with the type Jump, Jet or Flying may assault Flyers in Zooming mode Note that in the case of troops which can use their Jump, Jet or Flying movement in either the movement phase or the assault phase, they must use it in the assault phase to charge Flyers in Zooming mode. In addition, when assaulting a Flyer in Zooming mode, the assaulting player must roll an additional dice for their random assault distance and remove the highest, exactly like assaulting through cover (although it will not inflict an Initiative penalty nor be ignored by abilities which ignore Cover for assaulting purposes). This represents the additional vertical distance which must be covered by the attackers - and this penalty will stack with similar penalties.
When assaulting a Flyer, units must take a Dangerous Terrain test, failures of which will ignore Armour saves, to represent being caught by the jet engines or damaged by the passage of air. Otherwise, combat against Flyers will proceed as normal. Note that as Flyers can travel at very fast speeds, it is common for them to have a high Ws and may even have successful hits against them resolved. Also note that as Flyers must travel their minimum distance, they will automatically leave combat (unless they choose to engage Hover mode and stay stationary).
Flying Monstrous Creatures in Gliding mode may, as an exception to their normal rules on assaulting, elect to assault Flyers in Zooming mode. Resolve the assault exactly as if the Flying Monstrous Creature was in Swooping mode (note that all Flying Monstrous Creatures automatically have the Death From Above special rule).

Assaulting a Flying Monstrous Creature in Gliding mode
(Note, this is separate from when a Flying Monstrous Creature has failed its Grounding Test, and is forced to remain on the ground to be assaulted). Only units entirely made up of models with the type Jump, Jet or Flying may assault Flying Monstrous Creatures in Gliding mode.Note that in the case of troops which can use their Jump, Jet or Flying movement in either the movement phase or the assault phase, they must use it in the assault phase to charge Flying Monstrous Creatures in Gliding mode. In addition, when assaulting a Flying Monstrous Creature in Gliding mode, the assaulting player must roll an additional dice for their random assault distance and remove the highest, exactly like assaulting through cover (although it will not inflict an Initiative penalty nor be ignored by abilities which ignore Cover for assaulting purposes). This represents the additional vertical distance which must be covered by the attackers - and this penalty will stack with similar penalties.
When assaulting a Flying Monstrous Creature in Gliding mode, units must take a Dangerous Terrain test, failures of which will ignore Armour saves, to represent being caught by the powerful wings or damaged by the passage of air. Combat is resolved as normal from here, with the exception that the controlling player may decide to have his Flying Monstrous Creature remain in Gliding mode, and it will thus leave combat exactly like a Flyer. Note that the controlling player must make the decision at the start of his first movement phase after being assaulted, and if he chooses to change to Swooping mode to continue the combat, he cannot later change his mind and have his Monstrous Creature return to Gliding mode.
Flying Monstrous Creatures in Gliding mode may, as an exception to their normal rules on assaulting, elect to assault Flying Monstrous Creatures in Gliding mode. Resolve the assault exactly as if the assaulting Flying Monstrous Creature was in Swooping mode (note that all Flying Monstrous Creatures automatically have the Death From Above special rule). If they have no opponents left after the assault phase (i.e. the enemy has Fallen Back or has been wiped out), the assaulting player may choose to have his Flying Monstrous Creature proceed in Gliding or Swooping mode.

Death From Above
A unit entirely made up of models with this rule automatically passes Dangerous Terrain tests made necessary when assaulting Flyers in Zooming mode or Flying Monstrous Creatures in Gliding mode. Further they do not roll the additional D6 for range and remove the highest, but uses the normal rules for assaulting.

All Flying Monstrous Creatures automatically have the above rule, along with a few scattered units (Swooping Hawks being the obvious one to me).

Basically, I think it would have been really cool to see big flying stuff just landing on a plane and ripping wings, etc, off. However, Flyers are still pretty tough - they're minimum Ws6 in the above system, and can easily get Ws10, hits rerolled - certainly, your average joe Assault Marines with jump packs are unlikely to do much more than scratch the paintwork or strip a hull point. And unless you have the Death From Above rule, it's not very easy to charge them either, and you can easily be taking damage yourself. It's there as an option (something which Codexes without Skyfire weaponry badly need), but it's a dangerous and difficult option - unless you're something like a Flyrant, which can body tackle a Stormraven out of the sky if it feels like it.

But yeah, the Ws system is actually what I was more interested in, assaulting Flyers was a tack on.

3. ## Re: Vehicle Weaponskill in 6th ed

You could just start them at WS 1 and add 1 for every four inches moved, or make them standard values for the technical speed. So combat speed is WS 3, cruising speed is WS 4, etc.

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