Ethereals and Magic Standards

[Blkc57]

But Hexwraiths are fast cav, what kinda silly VC player would just leave them out there to be flanked? To quote the wise Sean Bean "One does not simply walk into Mordor and flank some hexwraiths." What you envision is some serious Sun Tzu tactical genius. With my patented Dragonbane Block, now you too can play like a Chinese warlord without all the trouble of growing a Fu Manchu. No need to maneuver in for that perfect charge when you can charge in the front, in the flank, in the rear, with support or without support, in good days and bad. With a Dragonbane gem character, You can charge those hexwraiths while they're just sitting down with some Sierra Mist to watch Burn Notice on the USA Network, and it would still have the same effect...they would brick off of your gleaming 2+ ward save.

[Askari]

Two easy ways to deal with Hexwraiths. Light magic and a Griffon-riding magic weapon wielder with the Dragonbane Gem/Dragonhelm.

Light magic just makes them explode if they look the wrong way, and the Griffon rider is even faster and more maneuverable than they are. None of this "use Demigryphs/Reiksguard" rubbish, those units are the perfect target for Hexwraiths - i.e. expensive models with high armour saves but no magic weapons. A lone Captain on a Warhorse is better than sticking him in a unit of Knights in this regard.

[DeathlessDraich]

Edit: I'm playing Empire for this example.
End Edit.

If a unit possesses a magic standard of any type, does that unit now have "magical attacks" ?

The point here is that even the title, "Magic Weapon" does not specifically state that the attacks are magical...

Ironic isn't it...

However, the wording on Ethereal units states that it can not be harmed except by a "Magic Weapon" or "magical attacks".
Which kind of leaves banners hanging in the breeze on this one...

If this is the case, there are only 3 ways to counter ethereal units.
1. Magic Weapons on characters
2. Spells - Magic Missiles, direct damage.. or the #2 spells from lore of fire and metal which grant "magical attacks" to the unit.
3. Combat resolution..

Good luck with #3 above vs the hex wraiths 10 strong with S5 attacks. Who will be reanimated or brought back next magic phase...

How are you guys fending off 2 units of 10 hexwraiths? They single handedly can wreck any army except Skaven (Warp fire/stone, everything is magical).

Just really would like to think what is in GW's head by making a unit so invincible.

I threw 5 dice (all I had) at Bannishment (3d6 s4 hits against undead) first turn and it got scrolled. 2nd turn, I threw 6 dice and he threw all of his and dispelled it.. The hexwraiths single handedly crushed my entire flank. Nothing that I could do....

Just looking for answers and or solid solutions... Aside from giving every character a magic weapon which is redunkulous. Even so, I will retort that, even if you do a a few wounds or even 3 if you are a lord level character that they will simply be healed back next VC magic phase.

I'm at a loss...

Interesting! ( a tactical question?)

I dedicated nearly 3 pages to the Hexwraith problem and explained how 3 units of 10 Hexwraiths should be tackled. Not an easy task but coincidentally I used swordsmen in my example - so Empire should be able to do it.. Coincidentally I also stated that Brets should do well against Hexwraiths.

How should it be done - all the main pts have been covered by the post above - except magic should not be depended upon to guarantee success.
You've already mentioned part of the solution. It's a matter of combining all the elements together. The Hexwraith unit will be wary of you and probably will be reluctant to Spectral hunt in the first turn if you employ the right unit/s (same total no of pts as Hexwraiths) and tactical manoeuvring.

Good luck!

[najo]

You don't walk in and flank them. You make them come to you. Away from their general ideally. Dragonbane gem is good, but useless against the rest of the army. All our suggestions are sound, and both have risk. If he's hit front on by three to four hexwraiths and fails his gem saves, he's dead. Bottom line, when dealing with ethereal troops, either turn combat result against them, use magic weapons or negate their attacks. In this as you have multiple choices to try and even combine. Good luck.

[Ridarsin]

The only thing is why would I swing at a guy with a 2+ ward rather than at the unit. I also don't let my wraiths stray far from my general, due to the fear of not being able to march. I don't play against empire all that often, but I've had a unit of five hexwraiths take out a unit of three demigryphs with a standard from combat. I myself would fear a flying hero that can out maneuver my wraiths, think counter charging after moving though units or after they charge your unit as a threat machine.

[Askari]

You don't walk in and flank them. You make them come to you. Away from their general ideally. Dragonbane gem is good, but useless against the rest of the army.

It's the same cost as a single Empire Spearman, who cares if it's useless against the rest of the army? Each and every single list over, say, 100pts, can spare that much just on the off-chance of Flaming attacks.

[PeG]

The easiest way of killing them is still a magical missile. If you use 6 dice you have a decent chance of irresistable force and then he cant dispel. If not you will most likely force a scroll the first turn (assuming he has one) and after that you should be able to get some magic through. Unless you are unlucky (which can happen) there is no way for him to reliably dispell all you magical missiles. Also if he keeps his dispel dice being afraid of the magical missile later in the magical phase you should be able to cast some nice buffs.

[najo]

Points isn't my point, if you take the gem then your hero has no ward save against other units. You're right that the gem is good and cheap, it's just limits what he can fight. I think the gem is great for models with regeneration to take so they can keep from losing their regeneration. You be better building the captain with ogre or swift sword and the Dragonhelm, increasing your armor save along with the ward vs flaming attacks. Also, if the captain is running around on his own, what is to stop him being singled out by vampires magic or hunted by something that screams like a banshee,vampire with skabarth or a terrorist. You need a delivery system.

[najo]

The easiest way of killing them is still a magical missile. If you use 6 dice you have a decent chance of irresistable force and then he cant dispel. If not you will most likely force a scroll the first turn (assuming he has one) and after that you should be able to get some magic through. Unless you are unlucky (which can happen) there is no way for him to reliably dispell all you magical missiles. Also if he keeps his dispel dice being afraid of the magical missile later in the magical phase you should be able to cast some nice buffs.

Problem with magic missile is that isn't going to get past a dispel scroll. Also, any vampire player worth his salt...or blood... is going to be more equipped and experienced in the magic phase than most players.even worse,vampires powers and items as well as their character options allow for power and dispel manipulation more than any other army except for lizard Men and tzeentch.