Using Older Models

[Eternus]

This question is about my Guard Heavy Weapon Teams, but I guess could be applied to other models in other armies as well.

I have some older Heavy Weapon Teams which are not mounted on large round bases. Instead they are on small individual round bases, and I wanted to know whether I should replace the bases, which though would involve a small cost, time and a little effort, would bring them up to date and make using them easier, or should I do what I planned as an alternative and simply keep the two man team in base contact with each other, effectively treating them as if they were mounted on a single base?

Cheers.

[gormthegreat]

The rules are such that if you want to play tournies or shop games you will need the large bases. I have 10 missile launcher teams made up using the leftovers from the HWT's sprues that are all on small bases. my friends don't mind too much because i keep track of wounds and try not to deploy them plce they wouldn't have fitted on large bases. so to summarise; for official games you will need large bases but you should be ok in friendly games so long as your group isn't too strict, and you don't abuse to situation.

[Gertjan]

Well, as far as I can recall you're supposed to use the bases that came with the models, you're just not allowed to model to your advantage, whicih isn't the case as the models were delivered like that. So in your case you can either keep them on their current bases or you can rebase them to the 60mm base. What you can also do is just make sure you have a few 60mm bases handy so if your opponent starts being difficult then you can put them on a blank 60mm base and be done with it.

Honestly though, I have never had trouble with it myself, people are usually far gladder to see some of the old guard mini's (and especially if they aren't cadian/catachan) to bother complaining.

[Shandara]

There are 0 rules in the rulebook against or for modeling for advantage.

The only stipulation is that the rules 'assume' the models are glued to the base they came with.

In this case, as long as you kept the 2 gunner models and the weapon in base contact or as close together as you can I would never complain about it.

[murgel2006]

Well, as far as I can recall you're supposed to use the bases that came with the models, you're just not allowed to model to your advantage, which isn't the case as the models were delivered like that. So in your case you can either keep them on their current bases or you can rebase them to the 60mm base. What you can also do is just make sure you have a few 60mm bases handy so if your opponent starts being difficult then you can put them on a blank 60mm base and be done with it.

I agree. This way should satisfy all.

The rules were clearer in 5th regarding bases. I have jetbikes that were delivered with small bases, with octagonal bases and with the "newer" large bases. The mix has never been a problem.

[Eternus]

The problem with the Guard Heavy weapon Teams is that in the current book they are effectively a single model with 2 wounds, which can obviously then be insta-killed, which is easier when they are on a single base. What I would do is simply treat them as a single model on two bases, but keep them in contact, but then the question of whether they should be covered by Blast Markers and Templates comes in...

[Sons of Lorgar]

If the blast touches either, they could snuff it, simple as that, but I'd probably buy 60mm bases and glue the 25mm bases on top, then use basing materials to cover up the join in a natural way and blend with the original basing terrain.

EDIT: Since most of the old HW teams are squatting/crouching or sitting, the height increase of the extra base shouldn't be too detrimental either.

[Sotek]

One novel idea I saw was to have a 60mm base with sandbags and ammo debris etc on it upon which the 2 figures were placed. If they took a wound then the loader was removed.

[Gingerwerewolf]

Ive seen the above idea done really nicely as well. He left the gunners on bases and then cut 25mm circles in the 60mm bases and put a sheet of plastic on the bottom. They looked ace but he could remove for wounds or as my mate said, change them back when GW changed its mind again...

[spaint2k]

The suggestions in this thread are great, especially the scenic base one. If you go with the "keep them as is till someone complains route" rather than buying extra bases you could just cut circles of card or plasticard. It'll also stop your models being elevated the extra height of the base.

[AndrewGPaul]

I rebased all my older weapon teams onto 65mm bases. However, assuming you don't want to do that, I would suggest going by the old 2nd edition rules; keep the gunner and loader (and the gun itself, if it's a separate model) within 1" of each other (OK, 2nd edition allowed a 2" spacing; 1" is closer to the effective size of a single base). In effect, forming a "mini-unit" within the larger unit. That should be roughly the same as having them on a single 65mm base.

[ForgottenLore]

I rebased all my older weapon teams onto 65mm bases.

why a 65mm base and not a standard 60mm one?

[edward3h]

why a 65mm base and not a standard 60mm one?

Because the GW 60mm bases are actually closer to 65mm. I bought some 60mm bases from another company and they are clearly smaller if you put them up against the GW ones. Not enough to make much difference in game though.

[ForgottenLore]

Because the GW 60mm bases are actually closer to 65mm.

Not the two varieties I measured with a caliper they aren't.

[AndrewGPaul]

Then your calipers are out of calibration or you're reading them wrong. I've just measured a Dreadnought base and it's somewhere between 64 and 65mm in diameter.

The top surface is 61mm in diameter, but why would you use that as the definition of the size? It's not how any other bases are measured. You don't even need to use another company's bases to see the difference; a large clear flying base and the bases Epic titans come on are both 60mm in diameter, and are noticeably smaller than the "60mm" bases.

Back on topic, I've got a few squads of Rogue Trader-era Imperial Guard. Since that was before the 2-man Heavy Weapon Team concept was invented, heavy weapons are simply carried by a single man. I'll just designate one other member of the squad as the loader and treat the two of them as a Weapon Team.

[carldooley]

actually, you can use mason jar lids or the tops of orange juice concentrate containers. . . they are the same size as the 60mm bases. if you doubt me, next time you go to the store bring one and compare.

[tu33y]

i recently made a descision to mount HW teams on bike bases.. with mixed results. by mixed i mean missile teams look good, las cannons look awful and it wass a horrific failure.

i HATE the large bases- they are so cumbersome to store. so i will keep putting missile teams on the bike bases. its VERY rare i use HW teams anyway.

and as for people not playing me... well id just walk away and play someone else.

i also agree with the idea of "secondary mounting" them on a 60mm base

[AndrewGPaul]

Even in 2nd edition, I ditched the cavalry base the Catachan and Cadian missile launcher models came on; they fitted on a regular 25mm round base anyway. I mounted the prone snipers and meltagun-carrying models in the Elysian range on bike bases.

[boogle]

Elysian drop troop heavy weapon teams come with mixed bases, some on the bike bases, some on 60mm ones and some on small round ones, for those that come with the different bases, i just remove the loader

[dugaal]

As mentioned about the orange juice lids, IF you have lots of re basing to do and don't want to shell out for GW or take effort un-basing-rebasing the metal models; then..
Take very sturdy, thin circles (plasticard, high-quality paper-board etc.) cut to the size of the 60-65mm GW bases. Use authentic one for cutting guide for consistency. Then simply glue the models with their old bases on this, and then flock and paint around it to hide the ridges!
Rules change? pry the old bases off the 60mm with a knife.