Bit tired of the Imperium, fancy a new army...

[Stormtrooper Clark]

I've always liked the Imperium, but being something of a big lore fan I always twitched a little when my Imperial Guard went up against a Spess Mehreen army yet again. I think after nine years they've wiped out about three whole chapters. Poor sods.

With 6th I quite fancied starting a new army. I've occasionally dabbled elsewhere with the odd box of models then go "Meehhh..." and crawled back to my massed Imperial Guard and/or Daemonhunters. The massive resurgence in popularity for the Grey Knights has left a sour taste in my mouth and the odd eye roll when they come out of the box. The fluff OCD in the back of my head really wants to collect something relatively 'rare-ish' so I don't end up fighting fellow Imperials every other game and whilst Daemonhunters satisfied that itch to a fair degree they're now being thrown up against Grey Knights even more.

1) I like shooty armies. It's always been a favourite feeling of mine to get into a nice position and blast the enemy to piecies.
2) Something not Space Marines.

I considered the Sisters of Battle but the general lack of variety and expense of the models put me off. They also pulled a Grey Knights and butchered the Inquisition area. I've been looking towards the Tau, but I'll be awkward and say the whole "In the Gundam of the Far Wapanese" look of them has made me peer at them and back away slowly. I've got a small collection of Dark Eldar from impulse buying but I've heard mixed things about "shooty, not shooty", likewise for the Necrons. I've been out of the game for a fair while thus a bit of catching up is required on my part.

Tah chaps. Apologies for being awkward.

[mostlyharmless]

Well, I can understand the inclination against Tau. Alot of people call them "Space Commies", but that's inaccurate. The entire Tau Empire is based on fascist expansionism, combined with a caste system that encourages a "be satisfied with your lot in life" attitude. When subjugating a new planet, they have the olive branch in one hand, and a gun in the other, essentially, "Join the Tau Empire, accept the Greater Good, or we shoot you." In the Tau Empire, unless you're Tau, you won't be a full citizen, and even if you are Tau, you won't have complete control over your destiny. You can't change castes. You can't even breed outside your caste. If you're an Earth Caste, you're going to be involved in building stuff and/or art, and that's all you'll be doing for the rest of your life. If you're Fire Caste, you're going to be a warrior, and that's all you'll be doing for the rest of your life. It's a completely alien concept, when you really think about it.

[A Shadow]

Necrons or Eldar would probably be your best bet.

[Rai_st]

Welcome to the Eldar my friend - we've got your shooty, we got it right here. A Farseer led Dire Avenger themed force seems right up your alley. You will never win in close combat, ever so put that to bed now. But multiple War Walkers and 4 avenger squads make a mess of anything and they are backed up by some cool looking and effective (albitet exspensive points wise) tanks and elites.

[TheDoctor]

Dark Eldar or Eldar.

Honestly, Eldar aren't in a good position right now, being such an old codex and with rapid fire being buffed.

That said, Eldar still have some good things going for them, and backed up by Dark Eldar allies (or vice versa), can make for a very effective force.

Dark Eldar can be very effective at either shooting or close combat, but typically not both.

Alternatively, you can go Eldar Corsairs (Imperial Armor 11). They have the advantage of being able to use/convert anything in the Eldar or Dark Eldar range. And they are a pretty shooty force, with some options for Close Combat (but unless you pay out for Harlequins and an Allied doom/fortune farseer, you are still going to be terrible at CC)

[owen matthew]

Tau are great if you want to shoot well, and do NOTHING else. For that reason I think they are more of a challenge for a vet player than a more well-rounded thing like either of the Eldar races. They are all good forces, really.

[Kakapo42]

Well, I can understand the inclination against Tau. Alot of people call them "Space Commies", but that's inaccurate. The entire Tau Empire is based on fascist expansionism, combined with a caste system that encourages a "be satisfied with your lot in life" attitude. When subjugating a new planet, they have the olive branch in one hand, and a gun in the other, essentially, "Join the Tau Empire, accept the Greater Good, or we shoot you." In the Tau Empire, unless you're Tau, you won't be a full citizen, and even if you are Tau, you won't have complete control over your destiny. You can't change castes. You can't even breed outside your caste. If you're an Earth Caste, you're going to be involved in building stuff and/or art, and that's all you'll be doing for the rest of your life. If you're Fire Caste, you're going to be a warrior, and that's all you'll be doing for the rest of your life. It's a completely alien concept, when you really think about it.

Now, I really feel compelled here,

The entire Tau Empire is based on fascist expansionism, combined with a caste system that encourages a "be satisfied with your lot in life" attitude.

From what I can tell the Tau are certainly NOT based on facism. They can't really be compared to any government that has ever been on Earth (a mistake many people make), and their Empire runs on an entirely alien system, even the castes not being very similar to ones in human societies.

When subjugating a new planet, they have the olive branch in one hand, and a gun in the other, essentially, "Join the Tau Empire, accept the Greater Good, or we shoot you."

If you accept the newer background over the older. Up until the more recent codex they were actually much more easy-going, the Tau section in Battlefleet Gothic Armada stating that they very often take territory using exclusively peaceful means, and that there are many factions that are not a part of the Tau Empire but still peacefully co-exist.

In the Tau Empire, unless you're Tau, you won't be a full citizen, and even if you are Tau, you won't have complete control over your destiny.

Not true. There are many examples of non-Tau members that are given full citizenship, the myriad alien races that are part of the Tau Empire essentially forming a sixth caste. And Tau have a great deal more control over their lives than most people think.

You can't change castes. You can't even breed outside your caste. If you're an Earth Caste, you're going to be involved in building stuff and/or art, and that's all you'll be doing for the rest of your life. If you're Fire Caste, you're going to be a warrior, and that's all you'll be doing for the rest of your life.

The Tau castes are physically different almost to the point of being distinct sub-species, and are all extremely specialised in nature. Even if they did have a choice, I doubt they would actually want to change castes. Air Caste members would almost certainly make for terrible warriors or workers, as they are extremely frail (in fact they are unable to stand up in natural gravity without a special environment suit). Fire warriors train for war their entire lives, they probably wouldn't be good at many other tasks. Not only that, but there is still plenty of room for advancement within a caste, and the Ethereals are advised by top members from each one.

But I digress. To the topic at hand, I think you're going to have to bite the bullet and simply build an Eldar, Dark Eldar or Necron force that does not focus on shooting. The Tau could work also, as you may be able to convert out some of their more anime-esque aesthetics. Just out of curiosity, what sort of aesthetics are you looking for? This may help steer you in the right direction.

[CommissarTanith]

Well, before we get derailed into a political debate about the Tau empire, you say you like lore (I call it being a story-line whore myself) so you really have to find something that you like fluff wise. I am currently starting a Dark Eldar army with the interest of going the complete opposite direction of my Guard army (Tanith). I mean, you could follow me into the depths of Comorragh, or stick with the flight of the Gundams with the Tau, you seem like you might be more driven to one depending on the story behind them.

[Beppo1234]

I'm gonna say do cultists! It'll be the new kid on the block, and it will free you from your loyalist addiction. No better way to quit being the good guys, than to become the bad guys of the story

[Charistoph]

1) Tau aren't Gundam. Gundams are small Titans and get into close combat. They are closer to Heinlein's Mobile Infantry in Starship Troopers (the book, not the movies) than any anime. If you want anime, go look at either Eldar.

2) Both Tau and Eldar are due an update soon. Some rumors pointing that Tau are early next year. Take with salt, but that means you can start them now and not look like a bandwagoner when they come out.

3) Dark Eldar are currently where Eldar should have been, if GW didn't go through a blue period from Tau till Daemons. They are mobile and a very precise army. Their shooting is excellent, and aside from having the resilience of tissue paper, a very effective army.

4) Allies are your friend here. Use your next army as Allies for your Guard until they can become a force of their own. Aside from 'Nids, they easily be used by anyone, and they are numerous, that there are always traitors and heretics being lead away. For Tau, they are Gue'la, the former PDF of the planet they recently conquered. For Eldar, their commander has been lead around to this confrentation with the Astartes and must fight or die. For Necrons or Dark Eldar, they are a slave force, used to absorb ammo and soften the target before the reliable troops come in to play.

[thor2006]

1) Tau aren't Gundam. Gundams are small Titans and get into close combat. They are closer to Heinlein's Mobile Infantry in Starship Troopers (the book, not the movies) than any anime. If you want anime, go look at either Eldar.

2) Both Tau and Eldar are due an update soon. Some rumors pointing that Tau are early next year. Take with salt, but that means you can start them now and not look like a bandwagoner when they come out.

3) Dark Eldar are currently where Eldar should have been, if GW didn't go through a blue period from Tau till Daemons. They are mobile and a very precise army. Their shooting is excellent, and aside from having the resilience of tissue paper, a very effective army.

4) Allies are your friend here. Use your next army as Allies for your Guard until they can become a force of their own. Aside from 'Nids, they easily be used by anyone, and they are numerous, that there are always traitors and heretics being lead away. For Tau, they are Gue'la, the former PDF of the planet they recently conquered. For Eldar, their commander has been lead around to this confrentation with the Astartes and must fight or die. For Necrons or Dark Eldar, they are a slave force, used to absorb ammo and soften the target before the reliable troops come in to play.

I understand the necrons with mind shackle scarabs but why any dark eldar slave realistically fight for them? The moment the were given weapons there would be turned against their masters, because in the case of dark eldar death is preferable to being a slave.
Also in real world slave armies had a nasty side effect of turning against the slave masters.
Maybe you can have dark eldar and IG like the cultural exchange between Tau and dark eldar situation.

[DEADMARSH]

I've always liked the Imperium, but being something of a big lore fan I always twitched a little when my Imperial Guard went up against a Spess Mehreen army yet again. I think after nine years they've wiped out about three whole chapters. Poor sods.

With 6th I quite fancied starting a new army. I've occasionally dabbled elsewhere with the odd box of models then go "Meehhh..." and crawled back to my massed Imperial Guard and/or Daemonhunters. The massive resurgence in popularity for the Grey Knights has left a sour taste in my mouth and the odd eye roll when they come out of the box. The fluff OCD in the back of my head really wants to collect something relatively 'rare-ish' so I don't end up fighting fellow Imperials every other game and whilst Daemonhunters satisfied that itch to a fair degree they're now being thrown up against Grey Knights even more.

1) I like shooty armies. It's always been a favourite feeling of mine to get into a nice position and blast the enemy to piecies.
2) Something not Space Marines.

I considered the Sisters of Battle but the general lack of variety and expense of the models put me off. They also pulled a Grey Knights and butchered the Inquisition area. I've been looking towards the Tau, but I'll be awkward and say the whole "In the Gundam of the Far Wapanese" look of them has made me peer at them and back away slowly. I've got a small collection of Dark Eldar from impulse buying but I've heard mixed things about "shooty, not shooty", likewise for the Necrons. I've been out of the game for a fair while thus a bit of catching up is required on my part.

Tah chaps. Apologies for being awkward.

I had sizable Space Marine & Guard armies when I decided to start a non-Imperial army. I acquired afew Tau back around start of 5th, but to be honest, just never really could find a paint scheme I liked & lost interest.

Then one day when I was down on my process lines doing time & task studies, it just sort of occurred to me the machines we used were just the metal constructs just executing their relay logic or lines of code & considered Necrons for the first time. It was a nice departure from the notions of honor & loyalty & other esoteric notions the Imperium stands for.

Now, of course they changed the fluff a bit, but after realizing how terrifying that cold, uncaring logic would be if it was pointed at you, I just couldn't get that thought out of my head.

Necron army is at about 2,000 points now. It plays quite a bit differently than my Guard or Marines & as such is a nice way to mix it up when I get bored playing with the same army. Give them a look & maybe you'll agree!

[Monospot]

Orks is shooty. We got dakka, mo' dakka, and da choppa to back it up.

What says "shooty" more than 6 dakka jets and 90 lootas in 1 legal 2k list?

[Ebon]

Tau have god-like firepower but are absolutely awful at anything else.
Eldar and Dark Eldar have a sufficiently wide range that you can customise them to be shooty or not at your preference.
Orks can do shooty but it's not really their forte.
However, my pick would be Necrons. They have very good shooting but aren't crippled at hand-to-hand in the way that Tau are and even have some close combat specialists, most of their models are out and look pretty good and since they've been retconned into Tomb Kings in space, there's potential for plenty of variety.

[Charistoph]

I understand the necrons with mind shackle scarabs but why any dark eldar slave realistically fight for them? The moment the were given weapons there would be turned against their masters, because in the case of dark eldar death is preferable to being a slave.
Also in real world slave armies had a nasty side effect of turning against the slave masters.
Maybe you can have dark eldar and IG like the cultural exchange between Tau and dark eldar situation.

There are different kinds of slaves, in this case, we could see them as combat slaves, all hopped up on drugs so they have no idea who they are fighting.

[Souleater]

For Xenos Shootiness without Tau...

Necron - the models are very different to IG, both infantry and particularly vehicles. Your army is smaller but individual pieces will be much tougher. Can look effective with even a simple paint job if well executed. Can run a list that is capable of taking on almost any enemy army due to the way their weapons work.

Eldar - Again, a very different style to the model. Slightly better armour but significantly lower model count (quite possibly lower than the Necron). A simple paint job can work very well but can be more fiddly to paint. Gain from synergy and having the right specialist units to deal with the foe.

Dark Eldar - I lean towards shooting with mine. They are not as powerful in assault but can do okay in CC. Neither horde nor elite. Nice and spiky so...yeah they look different to IG, too.


I haven't included current codex strength's because unless you want to bandwagon to the currently most powerful codex I think it is wiser to pick based on model and play style. Eldar will hopefully get a new codex sometime in the next year or so. Don't expect new ones for the others for several years...but their relative power may change dramatically.

[thor2006]

There are different kinds of slaves, in this case, we could see them as combat slaves, all hopped up on drugs so they have no idea who they are fighting.

Combat drugs are ok if you wish for something like melee guys or very poor range troops. But for specialized roles like vehicles,air support, artillery ,combat psykers, complex maneuvers and tactics it will not work. The drugs(in quantities that will prevent knowing who they fight or turning the same weapons against the dark eldars) will prevent almost anything but human cannon fodder tactics with extreamly poor footslogging range soldiers or melee troops.Forget of complex maneuvers,tanks, artillery ,aircraft or what combat drugs will do to combat psykers. Consider those slaves need to be transported and feed will make not an investment for the dark eldar on the battlefield. Maybe for set battles in the arena but not in a combat situation.
Most likely desperate guard regiment being aided by funny looking eldar that after the enemy dies will enslave the guard regiment. Or dark eldar needs an enemy to die and uses mercenary to soften the targets, or hide their involvement until it is too late before turning and enslaving the surviving humans.

[bonfire01]

Eldar are a bit of a lame duck at the moment until they get a new codex, so if you started an eldar army you might find you need/want to rework chunks of it with the new book.

If you don't fancy tau then necrons or dark eldar are probably your best bet. If you like a maneuverable shooty army then a dark eldar raider/ravager list is really effective (especially if you're good at passing 5+ saves!), if you prefer a more solid but somewhat slower army or love OP flyers then go necron .

[Shards of Basalt]

Maybe you can have dark eldar and IG like the cultural exchange between Tau and dark eldar situation.

I played in this one Rogue Trader game where the Dark Eldar were the allies of a planetery govenor.

Essentially he'd been the only general in the PDF willing to stand up to them so they offered him a Faustian Pact, they'd put him in charge and help him keep the job for 50 years and when that time was up they'd lay claim to his essence. When we met said Govenor this contract was going to expire any day now and he was trying to offer our fleet whatever we wanted as long as we didn't let the Dark Eldar get him.

[Stormtrooper Clark]

Thanks for the assist chaps, I'm leaning towards Necrons now. My only concern is with all these "they're so OP!" threads I keep seeing popping up.